Concerns With the 3-3-5...
So, rumors have it that not only will Michigan have a new DC next year, but possibly a new base defense as well. Rumors being rumors and all, lets forge ahead. I mentioned one of the concerns I have regarding this defensive approach last night on the rapid fire shouting match collaboration of great minds that was held over at mgoblog and WLA, and I was roundly treated as though I had just asked why 2+2=4... Basically, my question was the following:
When you have a strong group of players at defensive line (for our example, let's say that is Brandon Graham and Mike Martin next year) why would you only put three people down on the line and allow the offensive line to completely neutralize them with double teams if they so choose?
This was roundly answered with a smattering of "blitzing LBs are uncovered DUH" and "if they double two guys, we're getting to the QB you dolt" type of responses, something to be expected because I feel my point was somewhat misinterpreted or roundly ignored. It should also be said that this was not the forum to ask a question that requires a detailed answer, so I'm sure there is a good answer to my question, and who knows, maybe it really is a stupid question, but nonetheless, I push on.
The problem I see here is that even if you're blitzing LBs, you're taking one or two of the best players on the defense (and if anyone thinks that any of our LBs were more valuable than Graham this past season, you're wrong) and rendering them ineffective. This whole "getting to the QB point" also erroneously assumes that we are blitzing on every play (we are not), that the offense is passing on every play (they are not) and that letting an offensive line control the line of scrimmage has no effect on the rushing attack and our ability to defend it (this seems erroneous to me as well). With that in mind, wouldn't we reduce any kind of pressure we might be able to generate from the D-line alone and dropping the rest of the D into coverage? Again, it just seems to be a problem if you ask me.
I'd also be much more willing to go along with this whole "other guys get to the QB" thing if it had actually happened... the one time I can recall this year where we strictly ran the 3-3-5 was at Purdue, and the results? Umm.... atrociously eye-gougingly awful scratches the surface, and yes, I know it was just one game, but I was there and it was tremedously painful so humor me:
- 25 first downs
- 256 yards rushing
- 266 yards passing (from a FR QB making his first ever start)
- 522 total yards
- 48 points
- ZERO sacks and only 5 TFLs.
So pardon my skepticism and all... but where was all of the LBs getting home to a fresh new QB? I understand that Shafer was not a 3-3-5 coach, I understand that just like an offensive system, it's an unfamiliar defense that takes time and personnel to learn and run, but holy crap did it suck against a woeful Boilermaker team. I'm certain that there are those out there who will happily show me stats of other teams who run the 3-3-5 and point out their successes against this or that, etc, etc... the point is lost in that kind of discussion however. My qualm here is this: does Michigan's CURRENT defensive personnel work well with this formation? Answer? I do not know.
Certainly, my main complaint surrounding the D-line would still be present with any formation that features a 3 man front (say the 3-4) and not just the 3-3-5, but I am not a big fan of the approach when the strength of the team (as it so CLEARLY was all year) is the defensive line. Again, looking at next year's personnel, where do you think the strength of the defense is going to be? It's awfully early but I wouldn't balk at saying it's D-line again. So why only put 3 of them on the field? If defensive scheming is about putting your players in the best positions to make plays, how can one justify this for players like Graham and Martin? I'm not asking this accusatorily, but rather just asking because frankly it does not make sense to me.
It seems to me that if we're going to bring in a new DC and want to run the 3-3-5 then a number of things are going to have to occur:
1. The LBs absolutely must improve, particularly in pass coverage, an area we were miserable at last year. If we're going to basically give Graham and Martin an uphill battle on each snap, guys like Ezeh and Mouton have to come through.
2. Our team is going to have to feature another guy who can play a Brandon Harrison type of role, he played a lot of linebacker err "safety" in our okie defense over the course of the year, and performed rather well at it. I think we'll need another hybrid type of guy to fill that role (screams of a "converted" safety).
3. I'm somewhat firing from the hip here, but wouldn't we also have to be much more willing to play a lot more man coverage with our corners? Perhaps I'm wrong here?
I don't know, those are some of my concerns, what do you think about it? Any advice or thoughts are certainly welcome, and of course: GO BLUE!!
Comments
I don’t see how you are projecting Graham and Martin rotating at DT. Graham is more of a DE who can play DT. We will still have both of these guys on the field at the same time, with most likely Van Bergman as the other DE. After that, I’m not confident that our D-Line is that “strong.” Not many of the returning players have seen much action or have been rated too highly (or if they were, they have fallen off the depth chart, ie Kates & Patterson). We will have a good group of true freshman, but who is to know how well they may perform?
I’m more concerned about the two SS slots in our defense than much else. Currently most project Michael Williams and/or Brandon Smith. Both were 4* DB recruits (Smith played QB as well as S in high school). Their success will be critical in the new system. If either or both of those comes out and plays well, I think the defense could look solid in the stack. I’m hoping Fitzgerald takes the MLB and pushes Ezeh to the outside, where I think he will be more productive in pass coverage and blitz packages. Ezeh was our best pass defending linebacker (I realize this isn’t saying much).
If anything, we have several “hybrid” SS/LBs coming in this year. Why not get the transition year out of the way now like we did with our offense and QB recruits. Get the transition jitters out before the players who will excel in the system have to waste their time with something else?
by formerlyanonymous on
Dec 17, 2008 5:46 PM CST
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Misunderstanding...
I’m not saying they’ll rotate, I’m saying that they are likely to be the two featured returners on the D-line and on the field at the same time, and the 3-3-5 would seem to limit their effectiveness.
I fully understand the getting the transition jitters out of the way, and if we choose to go with this then fine, there’s no looking back, I just am uncertain as to how a few of the details of this scheme will work, particularly with our current makeup of players on defense.
GO BLUE! http://www.maizenbrew.com/
by SCM on
Dec 17, 2008 6:21 PM CST
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Fair enough on the non-rotation. As far as effectiveness, I don’t think we’re going to see our guys double teamed all that much. As the shouting match responses said, you can’t do that without exposing yourself badly. Most good teams we will face will have a run game based up the middle (OSU, PSU, MSU). The 3-3-5 supposedly is designed to stop this (and the option).
But looking past the LBs and DL, as I said before, I think the big question is in the secondary. With the lackluster performance last year, and the new guys at SS, it could be rough seas ahead.
All this being said, I haven’t done my homework on the 3-3-5 yet. I started looking stuff up back in the last coaching search but failed to stay on top of it.
by formerlyanonymous on
Dec 17, 2008 6:48 PM CST
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Once and For ALL!
Schemes don’t win football games.
My Flying Stork kung fu is better than your Wooden Monkey kung fu has got to be the stupidest argument in the freakin world. I am so tired of hearig that clazy shiat. It just don’t mean jackshiat. PLAYERS win or lose games. PLAYERS. How coaches adjust their players during a game IS important—but ten miles of Cover 2 vs. 3-3-5, 4-3, atomic zoom tweety defenses is just so much jabberwocky.
I WANT A GOOD GAME COACH PERIOD! And that is the guy who can get his kids to buy in and motivate them to eat crushed glass and crap out Crystal Trophies. To tell you the dang truth, I thought Jim Hermann got screwed and scapegoated. The whole freakin world is turning into a McDonald’s drive thru window. Everyone is pulling the trigger too fast on coaches—as if winning is so freakin easy Eddie Freakin Haskell could do it. (yeah, check the reference out!)
Now, can somebody please get them kids off my lawn!
by ElnoJlewis on
Dec 18, 2008 9:24 AM CST
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I agree with SCM (I always have. :) This is not a team built for a 3-3-5, not yet anyway. But in the end, as long as you have athletes at every position you can run any defense out there. Unfortunately for us, we have very few at any position other than the D line so for now, we’d better utilize their strength and that means putting all 4 on the field at all times.
by tk23blue on
Dec 18, 2008 9:35 AM CST
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A Tip of the Cap...
To you sir!! Good to see that moniker making an appearance again, I certainly hope that all is well!
I think that you and I are coming from the same point of view here, it’s not that I’m someone who thinks that the 3-3-5 “won’t work in the Big 10” or anything like that. I’m more concerned with whether or not the 3-3-5 allows us to put the best 11 defenders on the field at the same time. Right now I’m not sold that it does.
Again, great to hear from you, drop me an email sometime and we’ll catch up!
GO BLUE! http://www.maizenbrew.com/
by SCM on
Dec 18, 2008 7:27 PM CST
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TK!
My man – what is up? I used to post under w1a there at that other site. Good times. Nice to see you out and about.
Like an old man trying to send back soup at a deli.
by Beauford on
Dec 18, 2008 10:12 AM CST
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Best players on the field
This year the best four players on defense were the DL, three of whom may play on Sundays, and the best of whom returns. The DL may be the most talented part of the defense next year, but they may not be as good as this year. Shafer played a lot of four man fronts. OSU scored 42, PSU 46 and freakin’ Illinois 45.
Oh, and by the way, tackles are supposed to command a double team. When you have David Harris, you see what happens next. When you have…well you know…it doesn’t happen.
The point is that absent adequate linebackers, safeties and corners, no amount of DL play will help that much. If linebackers can’t cover and the safeties can’t tackle, a three step drop, a quick pass, and it’s off to the races. Or Beanie Wells busts through the line of scrimmage and everyone behind takes a bad angle to the ball and….we’ve seen that before.
So pick a scheme, recruit for it, ingrain it in the team, and school them in the fundamentals. Either with Shafer, or without, I think it will be a while before you see an excellent Wolverine defense again. But I also think it’s as likely to happen with a 3-3-5 as any other scheme.
by patrickdolan on
Dec 18, 2008 9:11 PM CST
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