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Here's the article, in case you missed it.

Some quick reactions, handily numbered for your reference.  This isn't a full on reactionary post, just some thoughts I had, and upon reading them, they don't flow too well.  That's how it goes on a Sunday morning.  I'll have a more coherent post about this later.

1)  If Rosenberg says it, it's likely true.  There is nothing to suggest that the man has a real axe to grind against Rodriguez and co.  He is a Michigan fan, or at least, as much a Michigan fan as he can be given his profession.  There is no sense screaming from the rooftops that the alleged incidents haven't happened.

2)  This doesn't mean that the severity of the incidents haven't been exaggerated.  For my entire life, I've been involved in sports.  As soon as that involvement went away from pee-wee mentality and in to legitimate competition, the "voluntary" workout has been involved.  These are workouts that probably don't include the coach, but uh, you'd better be there if you want to play.  There is nothing wrong with this; I would wager that every BCS team does this to some extent.  So would Rittenberg. 

3)  Ok, so clearly something has been going on that isn't quite within the realm of NCAA legality.  The problem with the article is that in hinges on one quote, and that quote actually provides indemnity rather than damnation:

"It was mandatory," one player said. "They'd tell you it wasn't, but it really was."

This from an anonymous player.  If it wasn't a mandatory workout, then I doubt the NCAA will find much to penalize.

4)  My question, much like Rittenberg, is why the hell does Michigan have so many former and current players willing to throw the program to the wolves?  What is it about Rodriguez that has proved to be such a lightning rod for these kind of things?

5)  Nothing will likely come of this piece, other than it being a huge distraction leading into the season.

6)  for those of you screaming about the timing of the article, many of the quotes came from media day which was last week.  I would rather it come out now than before ND, or MSU, or OSU.  There really isn't a "good" time for these types of things to publish.

7)  I would like some answers from the coaching staff.  It's not just that UM passed the rules a little bit - if the article is 100% true - they obliterated them.  That's the kind of thing that strikes me (a casual fan and observer, nothing more) as being a bit reckless.

Right now, we're going to have to be in wait and see mode.  We'll take our lumps from Ohio State fans looking for the fresh kill, but it wasn't so long ago that they had their own issues to deal with. Just wait until we start playing football.  This will likely pass from memory for all but the most zealous message board posters. 

If there is something that needs to be dealt with, it will come out in the ensuing investigation, whether that be from the NCAA or internally.  Once we have something that we can latch on to, I'll deal with it.  These quick reactions aren't a get out of jail list for Rodriguez.  Rather, it's just a list of questions and observations that I feel we need more time to deal with before we start a lynch mob.

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Excellent points, but...

how does one explain the 11 – 12 hour Sundays? This is the most damaging accusation as it is easily proven and not subject to interpretation.

by Chicago Wolverine on Aug 30, 2009 12:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Read this…

We shall return to Galactic Days standing strong, and unafraid, we'll carry on...

by Pinchy The Lobster on Aug 30, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hinton said it best....

Check out Dr. Sat’s take on it, I especially liked the summary, Carr and Co. were some of the few left around still following “voluntary” status to a “T”, so instead of a gradual change over the last 15-20 years, it was total culture shock when RR came in, which has led to Boren and Wermers type comments. Its news in AA because its one of the few places left that knows the difference.

I don’t think the players are talking as much as the Freep wants us to think. A few quotes from Frosh who don’t know better, and others from former players. ESPN has some corroboration as well, but coming from a “Former player who started last year”, well that’s not too big a list, so it shouldn’t be hard to figure out, and they either transfered, quit, or were here for 3-4 years under Carr before a very painful senior season (Physically because of Barwis, and mentally because of 3-9).

by cavalry21 on Aug 30, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The ESPN note also begins the debunking of the in-season Sundays allegation

The first two hours were spent in treatment, starting at 10 AM. So any coaching would not have started until after lunch, at, say, 1 or 2 PM. So probably we’re talking four hours until 5 or 6 PM, then the team has a break for dinner. Anything after that would not be mandatory. When players came back after dinner, they presumably did so voluntarily. That wouldn’t be against the rules as I understand them. We’re talking two or at most three hours of extra football-related time.

by Rasmus on Aug 30, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So they only broke the rules a little bit?

Is that the same thing as being a little pregnant?

How could Nixon know so little about Watergate and so much about football ?

by psupride on Aug 30, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to the NCAA

Yes.

They have these things called “secondary violations” that schools self-report every year. Penn State has a ton of them. So do every other school in the country.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/9649504/Coaches-not-afraid-of-NCAA-secondary-violations-

The reason the NCAA doesn’t crack down on them is because they’re largely pointless infractions.

So yes, the NCAA does have rules in place to create degrees by which rules are broken. If what Rasmus is saying is correct, then I would assume this would fall under the “just a little pregnant” category.

Michigan will conduct an investigation and, pending what they find, maybe the NCAA will too. I’ll wait for actual findings from these institutions designed to keep things on the level before starting fires. Trust me, if there is a fire that needs to be started, I’ll be first in line.

www.maizenbrew.com
Get it?

by Beauford on Aug 30, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No rules were broken.

The crux of this entire #%# piece of trash hatchet job of an article is whether or not the extra time spent was “mandatory”, period. It does not matter for one second if someone says “they said it wasn’t, but it was”… no kidding? Your participation in voluntary activities affects your chances of playing on Saturdays? Really?! What a stunner.

As long as the activities people are claiming put Michigan over the limit weren’t mandatory this is a complete non-story. Period, done.

GO BLUE! http://www.maizenbrew.com/

by SCM on Aug 31, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The result will be the same...

No baby, no punishment. In the end it will be like a fart. It stinks for a few seconds, causes a fuss, then everyone realizes it normal and forgets about it.

We shall return to Galactic Days standing strong, and unafraid, we'll carry on...

by Pinchy The Lobster on Aug 30, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on!

That’s not what I said. They didn’t break the rules at all. See Pinchy’s stuff below, which is from the MGoBlog series on this. U-M has to investigate, but there’s not going to be a fire. Like Beauford, I have no trouble being outraged if there’s something to it. But in this case it’s been less than 24 hours and the story has already pretty much completely fallen apart. The degree of ineptitude on the part of the reporters is astonishing. I don’t think it’s due to malice — more likely just stupidity. They don’t understand the rules and they don’t understand that most players don’t understand the rules.

by Rasmus on Aug 30, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with everything you guys said about it probably being not a big deal but...

And I agree that every program probably does the same things. However, what do you guys think this says for the trust that the players have in Rich if they are willing to sell him down the river?

How could Nixon know so little about Watergate and so much about football ?

by psupride on Aug 31, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wishful thinking on your part

The thing is, we don’t know much about who the sources are other than Clemons. There could only be one current player. Indeed, that’s likely. Two at the most. We also don’t know the circumstance — the reporters probably used the same trick with the current player(s) that they used with Clemons — tell him those Sundays were a violation and he believed it. Hell, the reporters may have believed it, too, in their willful ignorance of how the rules are to be applied.

I actually think this is a big deal, in that it might be the thing that finally breaks the back of the anti-Rodriguez damsels-in-distress, most of whom dream of being rescued by Les Miles. I’ve always said winning is the only thing that will shut them up, but this could come close.

by Rasmus on Aug 31, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
However, what do you guys think this says for the trust that the players have in Rich if they are willing to sell him down the river?

Really? REALLY?

I’m sure it is very disappointing to you that all Michigan fans aren’t willing to burn RR at the stake on a whim. You may wish this type of thing would destroy the University of Michigan. This will only make it stronger.

We shall return to Galactic Days standing strong, and unafraid, we'll carry on...

by Pinchy The Lobster on Aug 31, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, believe it or not....

I don’t want Michigan destroyed. For the sake of the Big Ten’s reputation, OSU, PSU and Michigan have to be in contention or at least top 15 every year.

How could Nixon know so little about Watergate and so much about football ?

by psupride on Sep 1, 2009 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love this!
What is it about Rodriguez that has proved to be such a lightning rod for these kind of things?

He doesn’t like softies. Softies get their feelings hurt and go crying to somebody.

I am liking RR more and more every day. M may finally get over the father Lloyd syndrome.

We shall return to Galactic Days standing strong, and unafraid, we'll carry on...

by Pinchy The Lobster on Aug 30, 2009 8:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Non-countable activities according to the NCAA:

Training-table or competition-related meals

Physical rehabilitation

Dressing, showering or taping

Medical examinations or treatments

Voluntary individual workouts, provided these workouts are not required or supervised by coaching staff members, except that such activities may be monitored for safety purposes or conducted by the institution’s strength and conditioning personnel who have department wide duties.

The provision of videotapes to a student-athlete by an institution’s coach that include a personalized message and athletically related information (e.g., discussion of plays, general workout programs, lectures on strategy related to the sport), provided the viewing of the videotape by the student-athlete is voluntary;

Use of an institution’s athletics facilities (which may be reserved) during the academic year or summer by student-athletes, provided the activities are not supervised by or held at the direction of any member of an institution’s coaching staff.

We shall return to Galactic Days standing strong, and unafraid, we'll carry on...

by Pinchy The Lobster on Aug 30, 2009 10:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

“On Sunday, it was lifting, film, dinner and practice,” Clemons told Schad. “I usually got out around 10:20. I truly don’t want to be associated with the program back there. But I am going to help benefit my teammates back there by speaking and giving testimony.”

We shall return to Galactic Days standing strong, and unafraid, we'll carry on...

by Pinchy The Lobster on Aug 30, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This
Voluntary individual workouts, provided these workouts are not required or supervised by coaching staff members, except that such activities may be monitored for safety purposes or conducted by the institution’s strength and conditioning personnel who have department wide duties.

The key thing that the investigations will need to determine is whether there was a punishment that went beyond playing time for skipping these “voluntary” practices. If the Torture Tuesday stuff applied to any skipped workouts, that’s not “voluntary.”

Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

by Seer on Aug 31, 2009 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I know you guys are on a 2 winning seasons in a row streak and everything… But, do you really think there will be a real investigation?

The answer: No.

We shall return to Galactic Days standing strong, and unafraid, we'll carry on...

by Pinchy The Lobster on Aug 31, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean a real NCAA investigation, right?

The kind of thing they do when they have reliable evidence that something’s wrong. I agree that there’s no sign that will happen. There’s certainly nothing like that presented in the Free Press piece.

But Michigan itself will do a “real” investigation. And no doubt every other program is going to quietly do the same thing.

Re: Seer’s comment: I don’t remember any mention of “Torture Tuesday” in the article. It certainly didn’t allege that required activities incorporated punishments for skipping voluntary activities. My guess: Seer’s been reading Jay Mariotti.

by Rasmus on Sep 1, 2009 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sources

So, the sources are 4 disgruntled ex-players, and 2 freshmen out-of-context. That is terrible journalism.

Also, Rosenberg never asked the simple questions, of 1) what did you do during those 12 hours a day; and 2) what was the penalty for not “voluntarily” working out.

If he did not have an ulterior motive, why not ask these 2 simple questions?

I’m not saying that he hates Michigan, but it is obvious that he wants to get his own name in the papers/ ESPN/ ABC TV… at the expense of Michigan’s name.

Finally, to answer your question about former players talking, they are doing so because there are ~20 or so that are now ex-players because they were passed on the depth chart by freshmen or had their own agendas (e.g. Boren, Wermers).

by jbalze on Aug 31, 2009 10:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is the damage repairable?

Obviously with the press conference today this has hit Rich Rod below the belt. Whether this ends up being players twisted out of context or true NCAA violations is a moot point. We have a coach with a seeming 50-50 approval rating by the fans running on the support of his players. Now you throw in the players taking their shots and you have your odds stacked against you for success. Granted the testimony of Clemons ranks up there in validation with anything from Justin Borens mouth. I truly hope that the reports of the current players saying they were taken out of context and manipulated into responses is true. Even if its proven that there were no infractions the media blitz on this will still hang an undeserved strike against Rich Rod.

by GoBlueinCbus on Aug 31, 2009 12:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yesterday, I would have agreed with you

But today I get the sense that the Free Press is going to take the biggest hit here. Before yesterday, I checked their U-M sports page online at least once a day. I wasn’t a fan of Rosenberg because of past stupidity (e.g., last year’s story about how the coaches were demeaning the players by cussing too much during practice), but I still went to the site for information. But this story crosses more than one ethical line for me. The Freep is out of my bookmarks and I won’t be giving them any more daily page views. I’ll read about Michigan football elsewhere. I have a feeling I’m not the only one.

The team will be fine. It’s true that ESPN and the like will not take the time to publicize the fact that every allegation in the story is utterly false in the same high-profile way that they’ve repeated the story itself. But in the minds of most alumni and fans, this will just be one more sector in the forgotten void known as “the time before Rodriguez started winning.” I personally think this team is going to put in a very respectable performance this season. This article, once it becomes clear to players and parents alike that it is what it is, will only serve to galvanize the Wolverines in their quest for redemption.

by Rasmus on Aug 31, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a weird way...

doesn’t this help the team if in fact it was just disgruntled ex-players and freshman taken out of context, and in fact everyone on the team is with the program, as has been shown by everything I’ve read and seen about Michigan this offseason. I mean with all the negative press, couldn’t Rodriguez just turn this into an “us against the world” theme for his players?

by chase17 on Aug 31, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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