Death to Your College Football Playoff Proposal(s)
It's that time of year. Now that the games are over, the bowl selected, and the National Championship set, its time to give your poorly reasoned argument for the BCS or for a playoff. As Zach already noted, some of the crackpots, hacks, and media types have already started doing this. But it's not just them. There are several respected members of the blogosphere and MSM that have proposed dumping the BCS in favor of a NCAA Football National Championship Playoff.
I started drafting this a few days ago and it turned into a monster piece. New ideas, new arguments, new issues to resolve. Then, in the midst of writing this, Mgoblog and Orson picked up a piece in USA Today claiming victory for the BCS, and tore it to shreds. So I know what I'm getting myself into here.
The cry for a playoff is alive and well. For the hack newspaper reporters at your local rag, this is an annual tradition of fecal writing in place in lieu of actual content. For the reasonable, it's an annual plea for sanity in what is perceived to be a broken system. Some ideas seem feasible. Others are so ludicrous that the writer should be tarred, feathered, and put in the Serengeti during the ostrich mating season. But no matter home logical or illogical these proposals seem on their face, there's one simple truth that applies to all of them.
They don't work any better than what we've already got.
Despite the noble purpose behind these proposals (a true and undisputed college national football champion) they are either unworkable, or do so at the expense of a number of different people, interests and common sense. For those of us who actually like the bowl system and the status quo, it's a knee jerk reaction to say "you can't make it work", smile self-confidently to ourselves, dismiss the proposer as an idiot, and walk away. So, in an effort to clarify not just why the playoff idea is stupid but why it simply won't work, here goes.
Death to Your Proposed FBS College Football Playoff!
The desire to have an undisputed national champion is an understandable one. As is the desire to get a couple of extra weeks of the most glorious sport on earth. However, it's not just that. There is the argument that the BCS is broken and must be replaced. And must be replaced with a playoff.
On the surface, it makes sense. Basketball, hockey, baseball, all the woman's sports do it. Even D2 football does it. That's fine and dandy, but they're all different sports (I get in to the FCS issue below). You can play basketball, baseball, and hockey on back to back nights. It's physically possible to do so. Football, however is a different animal. It's in not physically possible to do that in football. You must have time to allow players to heal, recuperate and recover. You could conclude the NCAA basketball tournament in a fortnight if you wanted to. It's simply nowhere near as taxing on the bodies of the players as football is. If you try to do that with football, a lot of kids are going to get seriously injured. What it comes down is when we're talking about college sports, the health of the players must come first.
And that is my biggest issue with expanding the season past it's current length; the danger to the players. At a certain point people need to realize these players are still just kids. As it stands, the regular season is 12 games long. 13 games with a bowl game. Then, for a select few, the season is 14 games long because of a conference championship game. That's a lot of contact for a 19-21 year old kid.
And I want you to say that again, "kid".
The players out there aren't grown men, as much as we like think they are. They're kids. Kids that are playing a game, ostensibly for free. You can whine about how they're getting paid under the table, or about all the benefits they get in the comments below. But they're not getting a paycheck. In fact, they're playing the game in the hope that some day they will receive a paycheck to play this game. And playing four extra games in a season might do more harm to that goal than good.
"But what about all the extra practice time and media attention they'll get!?"
What all that extra practice and game time really translates into is a greater chance these kids will suffer a serious injury. Football is like radioactive waste, prolonged exposure to it will destroy your body. This isn't hyperbole, it's documented fact. The higher the exposure, the higher the chance of career threatening injury. Honestly, you don't need to look any further than the horrible effect football had on Chris Henry's life to realize that.
If we were to make these kids to play in these proposed extra games after an already grueling 12 game season we're putting them at an exponentially increased risk for injury. Think about it. When are you more prone to injury? When you're already tired and beaten down. Think about how worn down these kids are at the end of a 12 game season. Michigan's 2007 team is a perfect example, it was a MASH unit that never really played a full game together until the Citrus Bowl. After they'd had a month and change to heal! Tack on an extra four games and watch the injury rates on the teams involved skyrocket. Like I said before, this isn't hyperbole, it's statistical, documented fact.
Further, an extension of the season doesn't just put their physical health that is at risk. We're also putting their post football lives in some jeopardy. The football season already lasts five and a half months. Not only would a playoff expand the football season into the spring semester, it would interfere even further with the student athlete's ability to succeed academically in their course load. It's tough enough for most kids to get through the fall semester with football and classes, but by extending the season even more putting them further behind the eight-ball in their spring semesters. Spring semesters in which they'll already be committed to 20 hours of football related work, before Spring practice and the spring games kick in.
There's also an aspect of family we're interfering with. We'd taking these kids away from their families not just over Thanksgiving, but throughout the Christmas/Holiday season and past the new year. I don't care how much kids like football, at a certain point people need to be with their families and not preparing to play a game for our amusement.
Montana's AD said this about the current FCS playoff:
--- AND OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE: We are NOT considering the health and welfare of the student-athletes, who are having to spend at least one month of playing 4-5 more games --- which is permanently damaging their bodies – and hurting their academics. This is not fair to them – nor their coaches. This is where all of us are selfish, and want the playoff system vs. a bowl. At the FBS level, there is a month off to recover bodies, take care of academics and finals, and at the end, a reward of a bowl and some fun --- and the schools don’t lose money like we do at the FCS level.
* emphasis MnB
When you consider the costs to the student athlete physically, academically, and personally I just don't think you can justify a playoff. The costs to the participants are just too high.
It's at about this point someone will tell me that:
My response to this is fairly straightforward. So what?
18-22 year old, over testosteroned males often want things that are stupid and bad for them. Walk around any college campus and watch a 20 something shotgun a case of Red Bull, dress like Kayne West, and tell you he's going to law school to make crazy money and live in a penthouse in New York. 18-22 year olds aren't necessarily the most self-aware people on earth, and whether they "want" a playoff is largely irrelevant. The players' health, safety and academic requirements trump this. And that's the way it should be. If they were all compensated, professional voting for this, it'd be one thing. But they're kids in school preparing for their lives out of school, and that's an obligation that should be taken seriously.
Player safety and health has to be the paramount issue at stake, not who the "true" champion is. There are other reasons not to move to a playoff, but I think this is the most important one. Still, for the sake of argument, lets delve into the next reason why there's no point in switching to a playoff: A playoff isn't going to be any fairer than the current system.
How Do You Realistically Make it Work?
For the sake of argument, let's say we're looking at an 8 team playoff.* 16 teams is simply too many, extends the season even longer. But an 8 team playoff seems to be everyone's favorite option in terms of length of the extended season and fair competition. With an 8 game playoff you're talking additional three games for the winner and runner up.
Throwing out my argument above regarding player health, and focusing just on logistics, we've got to fill 8 playoff slots to make it work. Let's also assume that people can widely agree the top four, saying that some variation of the top four teams would make the eight team playoff. This makes sense, yes?
Fine, how in the hell do you select the next four teams? To me, this is where the playoff argument falls apart.
When you're dealing with 122 FBS schools in eleven different conferences, how can you reasonably select four additional schools to play in the playoff? Let's say we take the winners of the BCS conference as the top seeds: (Big Ten, Big XII, SEC, ACC, PAC12, Big East or Mountain West). That's six teams. How do you fairly pick two teams to fill the last two slots? You end up using the exact same methodology everyone hates already and are using to tear the BCS down: Computers and Polls.
Let's look at just from a rankings perspective. Again, assume 1-4 are easy, if not easy that there are at least 4 deserving teams. Picking 5-8 fairly is damn near impossible. In the SEC there were five teams with nine or more wins. In the Big Ten there were three 11 win teams. In the Big XII there were five teams with 9 or more wins (one 9 win, three 10 win, and one11 win teams). Then there's a pair of 12 win and 11 win teams in the PAC-10. And if we're being kind, there's Boise and TCU. You're telling me that you can fairly pick eight teams out of 17 deserving teams? Yeah. Good luck with that.
I find it amazing that people think a playoff is going to "fix" the "problems" with the BCS. If we're already bitching about how we're picking the teams that go to the BCS games, what's going to happen when we start picking teams to play in a playoff under either of the above scenarios? How in god's name are you going to do that properly without resorting to the exact same calculus we currently employ to select the BCS? You can't do it. You simply can't do it fairly or logically. If the top four are selected already, pick 4 out of the 13 remaining quality schools (just based on 2010). Or if you go to the BCS conference seeding model, pick 2 out of the 14 remaining quality schools (note: I didn't include any Big East teams in the rankings only system).
Another fallacy that's thrown out is the proposition that you can have a selection committee pick the teams that play in the playoff. The idea is that you have a select group of people weigh everything an make the wise choice as to who plays in the games. These people won't be swayed by outside influences, they'll pick only with their minds and not their hearts or biases, and we'll get a just system. What I've just described is the very antithesis of human nature. Of course the system will be flawed and corrupt, it's run by college football. Everyone involved in the sport has it's own biases, watches ESPN, and unless they're a eunuch living alone with no living relatives, there's no way in hell they can watch every game and fairly evaluate each team and team's schedule and the schedules of the other teams and their schedules. It's impossible. Phil Steele's the closest thing we have to that (not the eunuch part, tho), and even he gets stuff wrong. A lot.
No matter the system, it's going to be flawed. So I don't get the urgency to swap a cup of Drano for a cup of Liquid plumber.
The counter argument to this was made by MGoBlog a while ago, so I'll save Brian the trouble and cut-and-paste his reaction to my above argument:
Anyway, arguments like this are akin to turning down surgery on a gangrenous limb because you don't want to have a peg-leg (hhhhyyyyarrrr!). Just because a playoff is still a little broken does not mean that it is not a preferable option to something that is almost always broken.
He is correct only if you are dead set in favor of a playoff. Brian is. I am not. I simply don't see the advantage to a playoff that everyone else does. The participants are arbitrarily chosen in both scenarios, teams play one another, and someone is named national champion after it's all over. The only differences are the number of games and the number of teams screwed out of competing for said MNC. To me this is not an issue of cutting off a "gangrenous limb." This is an issue of replacing your current hooked nose with a different, yet equally grotesque set of nostrils.
Maybe you can do this in a 32 team NFL, but trying to do it in a 122 team FBS when everyone plays different schedules and real money is on the line is impossible. Further, and I'm a little upset I'm burying this point so far down the article, this isn't the NFL. It's college football. The Bowl system is one of the things that helps to differentiate the two games. These kids aren't professionals and to an extent it's kind of nice to celebrate that aspect of the game. The Bowl games matter to the kids. Say what you want, they matter to the fans. We don't have to make everything the same. We should be able to celebrate one of the things that differentiates the college and pro game.
* Personally, I don't think a 6 team system works either. Someone's still getting screwed. The set up is fine and dandy, but don't we do this already?Pick the best teams based on accomplishments on the field. Heavily prioritize schedule difficulty, especially in the nonconference. Treat close losses to quality competition as evidence of suitability. Look past the number in the loss column.You still extend the season too long and you're basically just doing what we do now, but adding three more games.
But Dave, they do it in the FCS and there are 125 teams in the FCS. Q.E.D. M-fer.
Bullshit. The reason it "works" in the FCS is because no one cares. That's right. I said it. The only people that care about the FCS champion are the schools involved. The games are played in half empty 20,000 seat stadiums, by kids that only on the rarest of occasions are going to get a sniff of the pros. The bottom line here is these kids aren't going to play on Sunday. You don't sign with App State instead of Florida because you're going to get a better shot at the pros in the foothills of the Smokey Mountains. You play FCS football because you love the game and want to squeeze as much playing time as you can out of a limited window. We let them play that championship because once that uniform's off, that's it. And once it's off they're going into the professional world just like the rest of us. With a resume in hand, wearing a cheap suit, and an awkward smile that says "Please pay me to do something I barely understand." But that's not the reason to avoid the playoff.
The real reason a playoff won't work in the FBS is money. The money that makes everyone's athletic department profitable and pays for all those other non-revenue sports. And don't give me the "in an ideal world it's not about money" crap either. Schools aren't lining up to jump to the FBS for any other reason. When you spend and receive the amount of money we're talking about, game in game out, that the FBS teams do the dynamic changes.
And the FCS playoff doesn't work! In 2008-2009 the NCAA lost close to $400,000 on the FCS playoff. Do a playoff in the FBS and you have to factor in the losses for the schools that have to travel in a playoff, the expenses for the host school, and the giant cut the NCAA will take off the top. Or do you go to a neutral site for each playoff game and have the neutral site hosts bitch about who's paying out what?
Earlier this September, FCS Montana's Athletic Director sent this email to a loyal fan regarding a potential move to the FBS:
--- Football at UM [Montana] breaks even. We generate $6.5 in revenues; and the expenses associated with football at $6.5. Thus, others are probably losing $3-$4.5 million annually. How long can that continue at some schools?
--- We are struggling to find opponents to play in Missoula…. Cost is high, plus we win 93% of our games here. People do not like to come here. Even Division II schools are asking "guarantees" in excess of $125,000 to come here. That cuts drastically into our revenues.
--- We are NOT guaranteed home playoff games. We have been extremely fortunate in the past. To put in perspective, we made about $100,000 for the three home playoff games last year – and sent another $1.1 million to the NCAA. A regular season home game nets between $400,000 and $1 million (Montana State, App State, etc.). Being in the WAC, we are allowed 12 games instead of 11 – and 13 when you play at Hawaii. So instead of $100,000 at max, we would be seeing additional dollars… at a minimum of $300,000.
--- The FCS playoff system is hurting financially. We produced $1.1 million of last year’s budget of $2.5 million. The other 11 games produced less than $1 million TOTAL. The NCAA lost almost $500,000 again, and it will not continue to tolerate to follow this plan. Now we’ve added another round and four more teams…. Being on the committee, and as chair, I know this is a major concern to the NCAA – and a last-gasp reason for changing to Frisco, Texas, in hopes of attracting more attention and support. It won’t help to move the championship back three weeks into January – let alone that it will be taking place 40 minutes away from the Cotton Bowl, which has also been moved to that night. So much for FCS exposure on national television. Just to keep the student-athletes on campus during Christmas will also cost the two schools in the championship an additional $100,000 – none of which is budgeted. And to put in perspective, we LOST $150,000 each of the past two year going to the championship game. Had we won, the incentives for coaches would have put the losses over $200,000 each time. We get no additional revenue for any of this.
* emphasis MnB
So, no. The FCS playoff DOESN'T work. It's not profitable. And even the AD of one of its most competitive schools in the FCS admits the playoff is harmful to their kids.
And it's not like an FBS playoff would be more profitable or equitable. Under the current system, both participants in a bowl game get a nice fat payout, and so do their conferences. Even at an 8 team playoff you're talking about 7 total additional games that have to be played. Who hosts it? How is the money distributed? How much will the NCAA skim off the top? And where is the money coming from?
The reason the Bowl system "works" is that you have people lining up to host the bowl games. The reason they do it is because they make money. The bowl game is it for the season. There's nothing after it. So fans come to town, buy up hotel rooms, purchase Orange Bowl, Holiday Bowl, Chick-fil-A Bowl, etc... gear, and generally spend money like Imelda Marcos at a shoe store. If you throw out that model for the BCS games, where does the money come from? We're talking about $18 a bowl participant suddenly drying up. No one's going to be lining up to dole out $18 per game for a playoff system, because the only game that matters is the last one. Under the current structure all the BCS bowl games "matter" financially and the participants bring that money back to their conferences. Five BCS games of equal financial value or 7 games (in an 8 team playoff) where the first four games won't sniff that level of financial backing and the payouts to the conferences decrease because there are only going to be two teams/conferences sharing the title pot.
Looking at it logistically, let's say you allow the higher seeded playoff participants to host a playoff game. At that point your revenue is dependent upon their stadium capacity and operating costs BEFORE all the playoff expenses come in. And the host schools will not only be feeding money back to the two conferences involved and the other team, but to the NCAA as well. Okay, so let's move the games to destination locations, maybe out west or south. But then you're taxing the hell out of your fan base to pay a premium for tickets to THREE games and TRAVEL to these games.
Let's be honest. That shit is expensive. If you're a regular family, there's no way you can justify travel to three playoff games in expensive locations like California or Florida unless you already live there. Then there's also the issue of timing. Wouldn't rather sit on your couch in mid December to watch the first round rather than freeze your ass off at $250 a pop in Columbus, knowing that if they win the game there are still two more to go? It'll end up being the Atlanta Braves syndrome, people watch the first rounds at home then pay the big bucks to go the the championship game.
Playoffs are expensive, and assuming that fan bases will spend all that extra money around the holidays (perhaps three separate trips) is a significant leap of faith. This issue becomes even more pronounced at a 16 team playoff. You can say, "But I'd go!" all you want. But real families with bills to pay are going to find it hard to support a playoff, irrespective of advertising (Which, BTW, will focus on the championship game. Just like it currently does). It's much more profitable, and certainly better for the players, to keep things as they are.
But what about great teams like TCU or Boise that get left out!?
Well, TCU's solved a large part of this problem by going to the Big East in 2012. Utah also helped fix things by moving to the Pac 10. So it's just Boise State that's being "left out". And it's hard to suggest that Boise's really being left out at all. They've played in more BCS games than Michigan State has. But the meme continues, in a playoff they'd be able to win it all. Why can't the prove it on the field?
The simple answer? They can. Schedule better non-conference games and join a real conference. I'm sorry, but as admirable as Boise's current run is and how much they've invested in become a legitimate football program, their conference schedule is still a complete joke. They're best win, and this is a good one, is Virginia Tech. Their second best, a lousy Oregon State team. Their loss? A mediocre Nevada team sandwiched in between throttling lousy WAC teams.
There's always the response that no one will schedule them. That's bullshit. The issue is money, not competition. Dollars to donuts that Boise's demanding a return trip to Idaho for any game they play abroad. If Boise dropped that, I'm sure plenty of teams would line up to schedule them. This is a money, not a competition issue. Do you think the big boys want to give up a home game to travel to Boise when they can schedule whomever they want at home? If Boise took the $1 million to play at OSU or Alabama or Texas without the demand of a return trip, I'm sure their dance card would be full out of conference. The exception this year was Daniel Snyder's money to get Boise to play in DC against Virginia Tech where the Broncos got a nice big payout for joining the party. Otherwise, do you really think that Virginia Tech would've given up a home game? The other answer is fairly simple. Join the Big XII or the Big East. I understand both are looking for members.
I know, I know. It's not fair. Neither is life. Get a helmet.
It may seem like my venom on this subject is directed at anyone in favor of a playoff. Not so. I understand and respect the idea behind it. I just disagree that you can ethically, profitably, and properly execute it without endangering the health of the players and the financial underpinning of the Division One Football. My venom is really directed at the lazy hacks in the MSM who constantly decry the current BCS and suggest asinine playoff proposals because they're too lazy to come up with original content or think their own proposals through to their logical conclusion.
Since the inception of the BCS there's been a constant drone from lazy MSM writers that the system is inherently broken and must be replaced with a playoff system. No one has a clue how to implement that or any suggestion as to how it will actually work, but dammit, the current system is the embodiment of the Anti-Christ. "What if we had a playoff?" they say. "Then we'd have a true national champion. Problem solved." No, it's not. That is the intellectual equivalent of saying "What if all poor people became doctors? Economic crisis solved!"
The complaint is that the BCS is too arbitrary. Well, every playoff system I've seen is too. They're all based on the exact type of calculus we currently use to determine the BCS. All we're doing is replacing one flawed system with another, and that, to me, is useless. Brian has a great response to this, though not one I agree with.
No system can be perfectly fair. But even generic eight-team playoffs are self-evidently more fair and satisfying than the current mess.
No. It's not. I don't care about the pageantry of the bowls, just like I don't care determining a "true" national champion through a playoff. Why? Because both are a function of our imagination. Bowls aren't about history, they're about money and rewarding your players for all their hard work with a cool trip and a nationally televised game where they feel like it's important. To me, saying that the possibility of an 8 seed winning it all makes things more exciting is also flawed. When we're talking about a team's inclusion in a playoff is based on a subjective interpretation of how they performed, who is to say the team left out couldn't have won it all? I know it's a crappy argument, but it's the same argument being used against current system.
Someone is always going to get screwed. It's just a fact of life. Auburn and Boise can bitch all they want about being left out of past MNC games, but the bottom line is that they were given the short end of the stick and there's nothing they can do about it. If they'd been on the other side of the lollipop they'd be arguing how the system worked just fine, thanks. Whether we're in a playoff or the BCS, someone's going to get screwed.
So why further endanger the kids playing college football for a zero sum game? No matter how you do it you'll never equal the money being handed out by the BCS, you'll never make the game safer for the participants, and you'll never find an equitable way to do it.
I'm not asking for a perfect system. But if we're going to start changing things I think it's critical that whatever we implement is better for everyone involved than the present system. The present system is already over-taxing on the athletes involved. The present system is already screwy enough.
Let's not make it worse by going to a playoff.
27 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Your entire point about teams making money off the bowls is wrong
This is a pretty good summary.
Essentially, schools are forced to buy a certain amount of tickets when they accept the bid – which is why there are so many bowls, because it’s a scheme where you qualify as a non-profit – so many of them take heavy losses when no one buys the tickets. The bigger conferences can negate some of that loss with BCS money, but it’s not candy and sunshine for everyone.
Also, I don’t think you can compare the FCS to the FBS. MGo mentions this in one of its playoff posts in response to JoePos, but Montana isn’t selling out their playoff game because they’re Montana. Give me any scenario, short of zombie apocalypse, where a playoff game in Ann Arbor or South Bend or Columbus isn’t sold out ten seconds after the tickets go on sale.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
Bowls would make money for the participants if conferences didn’t split the money up. CMU’s of the world never would, but any BCS participant would. Indiana will make a mint this bowl season, as will any other non-bowl eligible team in a BCS conference.
Oh, so if they competely changed the system, things would be lucrative
Perfect, let’s change the system.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
My only point was that big Bowls do make money, it’s not the bowls fault that the conference splits the money equally. In a playoff, the participants might still lose money, assuming the conferences continue to split post season revenues and also-rans go to small bowls with little payouts.
It was disingenuous of that article to use Va. Tech. It was a game where there was very little interest because, quite frankly, Va. Tech., at 5-3 in conference, shouldn’t have been represented in a bowl with that high of a ticket guarantee.
Last year the Big Ten made money even after allocating money for ticket expenditures and travel. Anyone in the Big Ten who lost money can blame extravagant spending, not bowl payouts for their loss.
I don't have it on me to reference
but Dan Wetzel’s book on this talks to a bunch of TV people, and there seems to be zero way that a Division I playoff won’t make everyone involved a mint with the TV deal. Athletic departments are sieving money
Also, why are you rooting for the bowls to make money? They’re supposed to be non-profits, so why are their execs making high six figures? And how do they – true story – still employ scouts that get paid to fly around to games every Saturday to check teams out? Do you know what would be more cost effective? A nice flat screen and ESPN Gameplan.
Athletic departments are sieving money, and the BCS is one reason for that. Here’s a better read on that, as well as more details on how lucrative a playoff would be: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/baseball/news?slug=kr-calcontroversy092910
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
I guess I should have been more clear, Bowls make money for most BCS schools. http://www.mndaily.com/2009/12/07/universities-and-conferences-cash-bowl-game-bids Athletic departments are losing money, but in the BCS conferences, it’s not because of the Bowl Games. It’s because they pay their coaches an obscene amount of money in football and basketball.
I argued below that I think playoffs would make more money, I’m just not sure the negatives are worth the extra money. I also don’t buy Wetzel’s numbers in their entirety. I think many of his arguments are disingenuous at best, and examples, like Va. Tech. in 2008 are designed to fuel his argument that playoffs = tons of money and BCS = money loser for schools. This just isn’t realistic. I also believe that if more money is to be made off playoffs, then coaches, upgrading facilities, etc. will eat up more money than they do today. Athletic departments will likely continue to lose money as long as there is pressure to win in Football and Basketball.
And in regards to selection...
It’s much easier to deal with who is the seventh, ninth or seventeenth left out of the playoffs than it is about undefeated TCU or Utah or Boise or Auburn being left out of the discussion. When 64 teams got into the NCAAs, people complained about the two bubble teams that didn’t get in. With 68 this season, people are going to complain about who gets left out. People just love to complain, but it’s certainly more palatable to leave out two-loss Oklahoma (ninth) than undefeated TCU.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
My point on the money doesn't pertain to the schools
The point is the people involved (re: hosting) are making making money. The Conferences are making money. The NCAA is making money. That’s the issue.
Second, the playoff games will be tough for people to spend money on and harder for the schools to make a profit on it. You’re splitting revenue between not just two schools, but two conferences and the NCAA. to make a profit off of that you’ll have to charge astronomical prices for the tickets. It’s not like the Playoff is going to be a bucket of money for everyone, and I’ll submit it’ll lose money for the hosts and the visitors, even more than the current system
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Dec 10, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Your money is going to come from the TV deal
Gate receipts will be a tiny, tiny factor. You certainly won’t lose any many hosting the games – they will always be sold out, I just don’t see how that wouldn’t happen – but can you imagine the sort of numbers a final four game between LSU and Oregon played up at Autzen would get? Silly numbers. You’d have three or more games getting close to the same number as the current BCS title game without having to worry about the terrible numbers getting pulled in by the UConn/Oklahoma and Georgia Tech/Iowas of the world.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
I agree almost entirely. My one quibble is the money issue. The FCS tournament doesn’t work for the very same reason you state that they’re able to play it, nobody cares. I find it hard to believe that when considering TV rights, home game attendance, etc., a playoff wouldn’t be profitable. Bowls are profitable even though both teams travel and the bowl games themselves take a lump off the top.
My answer to people that say the BCS doesn’t work (which I agree with) is that we should just go back to the old system. Who cares if #1 and #2 can’t match-up on a given year. It might be that #3, #4, or #5 is really the best team anyway. The national champion today is every bit as mythical as it was when #1 might be playing in the orange bowl and #2 in the Rose. I’d rather have four games on one glorious day that may decide who we label the national champion then shoe-horning a match-up together to decide it when there isn’t a clear top two every year.
by LandonC on Dec 10, 2010 10:32 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
A couple of counterpoints
First, you make the assertion that adding a playoff necessarily will add three to four games to the already long regular season. I don’t agree. If we settle on an 8 team playoff, which I think is the most sensible option, then you are talking about three extra games. However, that doesn’t take into account the fact that one of those games is just replacing the bowl game. So now four of the playoff teams are playing the exact same amount of games as they would under the bowl system, two more teams are playing one additional game, and the champions are playing two additional games. This is piling on an already long season, but by making the claim that you are adding 3 or 4 games with a playoff, you are exaggerating your case.
Second, there is a way to structure the playoffs to allow kids time to rest and still not interfere with classes too much. Imagine the first round being played new years day, the second round coming a week later, and the championship game being played around the middle of January. This really only has an effect on two teams. They bowl system is already pushing deeper and deeper into January.
Third, arguing that a playoff isn’t going to be fair to the 9th and 10th teams left out isn’t really accurate. If you tie 6 of those playoff spots to conference champions you allow every team from the big six conferences a chance to earn a playoff spot on the field by winning their conference championship. After that you pick two deserving teams from a pool of candidates. Sure, someone is getting left out, but the difference is that most teams had a legit shot to earn their way into the playoffs and failed at it. On top of that, you give 8 teams a chance to play for the championship rather than just two. Your argument basically comes down to “if every deserving team doesn’t get a shot then the playoff is just as unfair as the BCS because it leaves someone out.”
Last, I am no accountant, but I have a hard time believing that an FBS playoff couldn’t find a way to make “Scrooge McDuck” piles of money. Isn’t the reason the FCS playoff doesn’t make money that nobody cares? Sponsorships and TV rights will be there for a playoff. If there is a dime to make, I guarantee the NCAA will be able to squeeze it out.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
junk polls
There aren’t enough anti-playoff articles out there. Thanks for sticking your neck out. I have a point to add to your argument.
You see and hear about poll after poll that fans and players want a playoff. However, these polls don’t usually specify what kind of playoff, how the teams are selected, etc. Chances are, when asked about a playoff vs. the BCS, everyone polled is thinking of their imaginary version of a playoff and not the watered-down, non-bowl, and vote-based playoff that would be the reality.
I’ve no doubt a majority of playoff supporters aren’t for any sort of playoff, but their own tidy little version of a playoff. Even playoff proponents among the blogosphere and MSM can’t agree on what would work best!
Any playoff vs. BCS poll should look like this:
Option A) the current BCS
Option B) a playoff of the top 4 teams selected by polls, the first round played at the respective home fields, and the championship game played in Florida. All 118 other teams stay home.
Now that you’re comparing the BCS to a specific proposal, playoffs don’t sound so great anymore do they?
That is an idea no one is proposing
That’s a pretty awful straw man.
No one wants to add a playoff and get rid of the bowls, please find me that proposal from any mainstream writer or blogger. The two can hang out together and be cool and not have any trouble. I wrote about this yesterday, but for fans of teams playing in the Gator or Sun or Holiday or really any bowl with zero effect on the national title, why would anyone care whether the title is decided via a playoff or one-off between Auburn and Oregon?
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
straw man = the point
Yes, it is a straw man argument and that’s the point: the argument that “polls say fans want a playoff” is garbage because it’s as much of a straw man argument to not specify a particular playoff system.
Even within this thread, proponents of a playoff don’t envision the same system, so to argue that “most want it” is ridiculous. Most guys here probably also want to have an affair with an attractive woman, but it’s a fantasy on their own terms and everyone has their own idea of what’s attractive.
Unless the alternative is specified (and not fantasy), then the survey is useless. That you’re opposed to my hypothetical poll proves my point.
Not quite
Everyone has their own vision of a playoff, but they also know what a non-specific playoff looks and feels like. I’m sure some people really want an eight team playoff, but would be way more happy with a four, six or sixteen-team option than the current configuration. People really hate the BCS, and they’d like any type of playoff over it.
That’s like asking “Would you rather walk 100 miles across a desert or drive?”, then quibbling over the poll’s accuracy because it didn’t specify what kind of vehicle you’d be in. Sure, some people would fantasize going in a DB9, but they’d be happy to have an old pickup instead of walking. To many of the people you’re asking this question to, the specifics of the playoff aren’t important, it’s the idea of a playoff over the BCS that matters.
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
specifics
You’ve already stated that you are against my playoff proposal, so I don’t know how you can claim that “specifics of a playoff aren’t important”. And to use your analogy, perhaps your option for driving across the desert is a tricycle.
Specifics do matter and that’s why everyone feels compelled to explain them in annoying detail in their blogs or columns. There are so many variations, too – anything from 16 team to 4 team, from home playoff games to using bowl games as playoff games… that it’s almost impossible to believe that every playoff proponent would be happy with whatever playoff system becomes reality. They can’t even agree amongst themselves.
So you’re wrong that it’s the “idea” of a playoff over the BCS that matters, because to compare anything fairly, you need to know everything’s value. The BCS is a known quantity. The ethereal concept of a playoff? Not so much. You need specifics.
by steelymax on Dec 10, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that's completely wrong
The issue is that a large playoff system devalues the importance of the regular season. A small one makes it impossible to fairly pick the teams that participate. There is a considerable difference between the types of “playoffs” that are being proposed and a general poll saying do you want a playoff or to get herpes isn’t useful in the least.
As I outlined above, I think the proposition that ANY playoff is better than the BCS is complete crap. That’s just where people are going to disagree. When you’re talking about 122 FBS teams and trying to shoehorn a playoff that’s both fair and representative of the sport, without devaluing the regular season…. well it’s impossible.
The specifics ARE important, and that’s the point of this piece.
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Dec 10, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
just so we're clear
My above comment was direct to CW, not steelymax. I think Max’s points are dead on.
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Dec 10, 2010 12:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The options aren't that wide-ranging
The majority of options you see are from four (a plus-one variant) to sixteen (Wetzel Plan), and nearly all of the ones with the most thought into them (MGo, Wetzel) support the home sites as opposed to bowl games. Obviously, everyone on the internet has their own plan with all sorts of variations, but since I’m not doing the polling, I can’t pick the options. It seems disingenuous to say that since these people aren’t picking the playoff they specifically want means they don’t actually want a playoff.
The most organized anti-BCS entity is the PlayoffPAC, so they should probably pick the concept they want to push and have everyone else rally behind it. Until then, perhaps the SBNation sites need to put up a poll with the options:
A) I prefer the BCS as currently run
B) I prefer any type of playoff between 4 and 16 teams that uses a mix of home sites and bowl games as game locations. I trust that smart people using these criteria would make a system I approve of.
I think the numbers would be very similar to the polls you cite. I mean, I would bet a clear majority goes with option B. And while you say that “Any playoff is better than the BCS is complete crap,” I think we can probably agree that somewhere between the MGo and Wetzel plans are very solid options that would make a majority of pro-playoff people very, very happy.
Saying that since we don’t have specifics mean we can’t do anything about it is a great cover for the parts of this post that don’t really hold up (the money issue and selection process, for example).
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
You brought up the straw man metaphor earlier, and now you’re making the straw man arguments. Neither of these statements are being made:
- “since these people aren’t picking the playoff they specifically want means they don’t actually want a playoff”
- “Saying that since we don’t have specifics mean we can’t do anything about it”
The actual point being made is there’s nothing to be learned by a survey comparing “BCS” to “undefined playoff scenario”, yet the results of these surveys are brought up by almost every playoff proponent out there as a self-evident fact to launch their argument (and I say “almost” because it’s impossible for me to scan all variances of the pro-playoff meme).
Also, I find your statement hilarious that “smart people using these criteria would make a system I approve of”. Aren’t there smart people involved with the BCS? And if the NCAA takes over the playoff, aren’t they still expanding the NCAAM tournament much to the groans of college basketball fans everywhere? Are they only “smart” if they follow your parameters of a playoff structure?
Bottom line: when you argue for a playoff, saying “people want it” is at best misleading and at worst disingenuous.
Your points A and B
is the concept that the most popular person on the team is the backup QB. Everyone acknowledges the BCS is flawed, but to scrap it with a system that is potentially just as flawed is foolish.
You really “trust that smart people using these criteria would make a system I approve of.”? Really? Because those people already made the BCS. If they can work out a way to make a playoff that will make as much money, you can bet they will. But so far they haven’t managed to figure that out, so we don’t have one.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Dec 10, 2010 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
As much as I'd love CFB to be year round
New Years day/week is the latest a game should be and I like the bowls, you have weeks to plan the travel and they are big final deals.
The largest complaint about BCS is the teams picked and Playoff system is about how you play the games not who is picked anyway.
I think they need to work on automatic qualifying and conferences but personally if Boise wants to go they can always consider playing college teams each week instead of JUCO’s or they could have joined the PAC 10/Big 12.
Put a Playoff System in NCAA 2011 or NCAA 2012 for those that want to see it so bad :P Heck make them design their own then perhaps vote via Sony Network see which one is liked best. I think that’d be interesting.
Flawed logic
Everything within your post is based on faulty reasoning and assumptions not in evidence.
1. You claim more football games are worse for the players and teams. The fact is the NCAA has already added THREE games to many teams season, allowing 12 game schedules up from 11, a conference championship AND a bowl game. The season could easily be solved in an 11 game season Conference championship and playoffs of 8 teams. Only the top two teams would play “extra” games.
2. Your money argument fails in so many ways its laughable. WIthout bowls, the cost of travel is greatly reduced. Oregon and Auburn would have their first two rounds AT HOME. Saving huge amounts of money to take 80 plus players, coaches and their families and bands to bowl games. There is also the fact that ESPN/ABC. or CBS or FOX would pay FAR greater dollars for a playoff than the bowl system. In fact, the current bowl system could remain intact with the top 8 teams opting for the playoff. The remaining teams would go to a bowl.
3. Ending before the New Year. This is so stupid you have no idea. The CURRENT system has the BCS game on January 7th. Some are already missing time in the new semester. If you would like to see how it could play out here is a great example: 11 games ends the weekend before Thanksgiving (November 20th). Thanksgiving weekend is conference championship week (November 27th) December 4 is a bye week. December 11 the first round off the playoffs happen for 8 teams. On December 18th the remaining four teams play. The final two teams would then get to play on January 1, 2011, actually finishing the season 6 days earlier than the current system.
4. How do you get 8 teams: This one is easy. 6 major conference champions get in automatically. The remaining two would be at large bids. This season would be Stanford and TCU. There has never been a season with 8 undefeated teams, so any team that lost a game would only have themselves to blame for losing a game. It actually keeps the regular season meaningful. It also has the added effect of not ruining a complete season with one loss. A team from the Big Ten would automatically have an opportunity to play for the championship. Int he current system, having three great teams that beat each other hurts the conference in terms of a NC. The alternative would be to make 8 conferences and only champions go.
5. Your same convoluted logic renders the NFL playoffs meaningless as well. Two teams with IDENTICAL records can have one in the playoffs and one out. In fact, the NFL uses a tie breaker system that goes as far as to say one of the tiebreakers is a COIN FLIP. Does anybody consider the New Orleans Saints “mythical” SB champions?
6. The bowls can continue for the second tier of teams that happens now. People will still enjoy seeing their team play one last game. The game would have as much meaning as the current bowl game does. Winning the Gator Bowl is not going to makee Rich Rod a success at Michigan this year anymore than it would is he were to win it under a playoff format
1. Yes the NCAA has expanded the schedule. Using that as a reason to expand it further is flawed logic. Just beause it has already been expanded doesn’t change the fact that adding more games is bad for a players health.
2. Teams still have to travel to Auburn and Oregon and, as I detail below, playing in smaller stadiums greatly reduces the amount of ticket sales you get. Assuming all the top seeds win and the CG is hosted at a neutral site you have effectively made everyone travel the exact same number of times they would have under the bowl system. Also, it is a lot harder and more expensive to fly into Auburn and Eugene than it is to Tempe or New Orleans.
3. See 4
4. This is what the postseason tournament would look like this year with that system:
Auburn
Oregon
TCU
Stanford
Wisconsin
Oklahoma
Virginia Tech
UConn
The problem inherent with this is the same problem that was inherent with the BCS before it expanded to 10 teams. It restrits access to deserving teams. In the BCS it restrited acess to mid-majors but here it is doing it to lower ranked teams. What about Ohio State, Arkansas, Michigan State, Boise State, and LSU? Pretty sure those are all more deserving teams than UConn. The BCS does have the Huskies this year, but the differene between the Fiesta Bowl and your playoffs is that the Huskies aren’t currently taking someone else’s shot at a National Championship away. 8 team playoffs will not work. Wetzel’s plan for 16 is perhaps the fairest option but as you set up in setion 3, that will never work beause it would go well beyond the date that the current BCS ends which will not sit well with the academics.
5. The NFL playoff system works beause they are pulling from a muh smaller pool of teams and are playing in a league where there is quite a bit of parity from top to bottom. The BCS does not have either of those things which makes it far more difficult.
6. The problem with this is that it assumes people will still want to watch the lower tier bowl games. People are currently watching even the lowest tier bowl games but that all ould be jepordized by a playoff. If the bowls lose meaning then people will stop watching them then a lot of lower tier bowls are going to fold. It isn’t a huge concern for the Big Ten but for teams in the MAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA this could mean that they no longer have the opportunity at postseason play. It is ambiguous and the reality is we really don’t know what will happen to the bowls with a playoff.
http://victorypolka.blogspot.com/
It is very simple
We will never have a playoff. Arguing for one is pointless.
It sounds bad but Delaney made it pretty damn clear this week. The Big Ten and Pac 10 are already giving up what is seen as our conferences biggest tradition to make the current system work. What have these smaller schools given up? If anything they have benefitted more from this system since it has increased access for them to larger bowls.
The reality is that the logistical problems of a playoff are extremely daunting. I know people love to bring up how fast a playoff game in olumbus or Ann Arbor would sell out, but what if those teams are ranked lower than Boise State and you all have to travel to Idaho for a playoff game? Do you really want to be playing football in a dinky stadium during the playoffs? The argument for money assumes you are playing in large stadiums with great mathups but those are not given. TCU, Oregon, and Stanford are all in the top four this year. They all also have stadiums that seat approximatly half the size of one that could fit in the Big House.
http://victorypolka.blogspot.com/
maybe a plus one system but plz no playoffs
I want the regular season to mean something and the national champion to either be undefeated or with a single loss. I still can’t believe LSU won a national tittle with two losses.
Everypoint in all of these posts has been rebuffed by Dan Wenzel
Buy his ’efing book already.
Sparty on. Gator done.

by 



















