Gettin' Greedy: Taking Big Ten Expansion to a Whole New Level
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 17, 2010 11:45 AM CST
in Michigan Football
33 comments
Alright. We've talked about all the logical Big Ten Expansion candidates. Missouri. Pittsburgh. 'Cuse. We've even talked about the not so logical ones. Rutgers. Iowa State. (Just kidding. No one's talked about them. The Big XII is actually trying to give them away.) At this point in the debate we're stretching the sanity of just about everyone. Nebraska? Texas? It's not going to happen people, no matter how much we personally may want it to happen. We just don't have that kind of pull.
But to hell with it. Why shouldn't we breach the topicof the absurd? If the Big Ten is going to expand, lets make it count! So with that in mind, we're getting greedy. Picking for the impossible dream, the perfect addition or additions. 12 teams 14. Whatever. And I don't care where they are. Geography is for fifth graders and people with maps. We're neither. Your school is located in California? Manitoba? Brazil? Come on down. Logic had no place in our machinations on forming a league of super villians bent on taking over the world. So it has no place in our ruminations on forming a super conference to rule them all. Screw logic. We're picking the best possible athletic institutions that would make a good fit for the Big Ten. And we're gobbling them up Unicron style.
Once the Big Ten decides you're edible, you might as well just let it devour you.
And face it, when Jimmy Dollaz starts making it rain Benjis like a Jamie Foxx video, your knees will tremble. You know its right. You can always blame it on the a-a-a-al-al-al-cohol.
The Candidates:
The Kansas Jayhawks - Those bastards over at BHGP beat me to proposing this, but according to CCHA rules since I intended to propose it before they did, I win. Credit now fully my own, Kansas would be an excellent fit despite the loss of Mark Mangino. And believe me, that's a big hit to their candidacy. Any person that makes LSU Freek do this, is a critical addition to any conference. But let's get down to the vitals. Kansas has a great basketball tradition, decent baseball and football teams, and strong women's sports programs. They've even got a decent academic reputation. But most importantly for the big Ten, Kansas forms one half of the most vicious college rivalry in all of college athletics. Ohio State Buckeye and Michigan fans might have dislike each other, but neither has ever rolled into the other's hometown, killed the inhabitants and burned their city to the ground. Some might say that's not a good reason for admittance to the conference. I disagree. It shows passion! Passion the Conference needs. Just check your weapons at the door before the conference meetings, boys. Another benefit of Kansas joining the Big Ten is their outstanding blog, Rock Chalk Talk, which insanely covers football as well as it covers it's No. 1 ranked basketball program. But, sadly, the loss of Mangino truly hurts their candidacy (though not their players! Zing!).
The Tennessee Volunteers - Putting the Vols in the Big Ten would be a masterful addition. Not only would we get some of that EEEEESSSSS EEEEEEEE SEEEEEEE speed in the conference, we'd have an endless line of Fulmer and Kiffin jokes to throw at our new conference mates. As an added bonus, nabbing Neyland Stadium would give the Big Ten an unprecedented FOUR stadiums with over 100K capacity. Imagine, we'd be able to fit the entire Big East football fanbase inside of them! On to the vitals: Great football tradition; excellent men's and women's basketball programs (with the women's being unquestionably the best program in the country [yeah, I said it]); and balanced men's and women's non-revenue sports. Vol fans are insanely passionate. You might have seen some of that passion when they wouldn't let Kiffin leave his office when all he was trying to do was convince all the recruits he brought to Tennessee to go to USC instead. Tennessee's perfect. Vol fans are a little imbalanced, they drink heavily, they take things way too seriously, and they tailgate like maniacs. Really, they're a lot like Michigan fans, except with better weather, and with Rocky Top Talk (the MGo of the Vol-o-sphere). We even share the same problem with stadium seating. there's simply not enough space to accomodate our more rotund fans.
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But what this really comes down to is I want an excuse to tailgate with the Vol Navy every other year. I don't care if it makes for a lopsided conference or makes it harder to make BCS bowl, this is about me. Not reality.
The Kentucky Wildcats - I'm picking Kentucky mostly because I want a basketball superconference, and not for any other reason. Well, that's not true. I also want to have all those Rich Brooks jokes at my disposal that SEC fans fans have taken for granted over the years. I don't care if he stepped down or not. I tried to talk about Big Ten expansion with him, but Rich Brooks thinks this is cow feces. Kentucky would be a nice addition to the conference in the sense that, like Tennessee, it would open up Big Ten recruiting in the south. Unlike Tennessee, it would not be a football threat on par with the addition of Texas or Nebraska, and would leave the natural heirarchy of the conference football pyramid undisturbed. On the blogging side, we get the outstanding Kentucky blog, A Sea of Blue, which consistently churns out the best roundball coverage on the interwebz (along with generally being awesome). As a nice side benefit we'd get the Kentucky hockey team and their fans as a bonus. I'm not kidding. And honestly, I'd love to have Rich Brooks' drunk cantankerous ass on board at Big Ten media days, even if he's just showing up for the free booze.
The UCLA Bruins - A natural fit for the Big Ten. Outstanding academics. Historically strong men's and women's sports. A football team on the upswing. A great baseball program. It works. Except for the whole two to three time zone difference. If there's a fanbase that is as manically depressive, judgmental, over educated, nerd laden, and has expectations that vastly exceed their on-field capabilities west of Iowa and east of Ohio, I haven't found it. Basically they're Michigan, except in California. They also have an interwebz giant of their own in our homies over at Bruins Nation, which (rightly or wrongly [depending on what side you're on]) dominates the PAC 10 blogosphere. How much fun would it be to see Bruins Nation and MGoBlog going at it on a regular basis? You'd be able to heat your house off of the angry back and forth prior to and after football games. It'd be wonderful. For our own purposes, we'd instigate and sit back and watch the fun. Like Kentucky and Tennessee, the Big Ten would also get the benefit of UCLA's insanely hot co-eds, which would do wonders for bringing up the quality of "talent" in the Big Ten.
The Virginia Tech Hokies - Hellz yes. Beamer Ball in the Big Ten. Tech's engineering program is one of the best on the East Coast, their football team is always in the top 25 (if not the top 10), excellent men's and women's sports programs, and a state legislature that won't give Tech any crap if they decide to jump ship. Come on. It's Virginia. You can't tell me the State wouldn't love the money. As a side benefit, Tech's colorful history with the Vick brothers will fit right in with the legends of the MSU nerd beatdown, Maurice Clarett, the City Boyz, and many other noteable Big Ten fellons. We'd also get Gobbler Country, an excellent Tech site. Virginia Tech would further expand the Big Ten reach into the lucrative east coast, and help us expand recruiting over there as well.
The Miami Hurricanes - Yes. That Miami. Just a personal perference, but I'd love to have the Hurricanes in the conference. If only for the the possibility of a November game on South Beach. Again, their co-eds help the Big Ten's hotness rating, and surprisingly, it's not all partiers and revelers on the student campus. Miami is a serious academic institution, with excellent undergraduate and graduate programs. This may be the biggest reach of them all, but they be a lot of fun to have in the conference and we'd get the BHGP-style craziness of the Seventh Floor Blog.
It'll be snoop-tastic. How how do you throw a Big Ten gang sign?
Who else should be adding?
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Got any "real" reasons?
HIKM!
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 17, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you underestimate the pull of the Big 10
The reason you’re seeing all this smoke in the Big 12 is because of all the money these programs stand to gain by joining the Big 10.
Not even Texas (who gets the lion’s share of the TV revenue) approaches the $20mm/year that each Big 10 team gets. In the cases of MU, NU, KU and CU, it’d be an instant increase of $10-15mm/year. If you net present value that at 5% over 6 years (when the Big 12 can renegotiate their next contract), it’s equivalent to a $54.9 – 73.9 million dollars. That’s more than a year’s worth of athletic revenue for some of these teams.
When you add the hundreds of millions of dollars (that’s 8 zeros) of CIC R&D money to the pot, it’s really a no-brainer for any of these teams.
by Gopher86 on Feb 18, 2010 8:01 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
As a UK fan
I would welcome a move to the Big 10. I have been saying that for a few years. It would be a much better conference for bball because the SEC doesn’t care at all about basketball. Fans of other SEC schools know nothing of the sport and don’t support it. As far as football is concerned, I think UK can compete very well and we would also have a chance to beat OSU, which I hate with a passion. I say let’s do it!
That's what she said.
I get your point
But I don’t want to play 60-54 games every night in basketball. Of course, we would get to play Tubby, and lord knows how much the Lexington media would love that.
As a Vol Fan
I can see why you would want to leave the SEC after the Wildcats’ quarter century of football dominance. As for basketball, you’re right — No body cares about basketball in the SEC — except the other teams and their fans.In men’s basketball nine of the SEC’s 12 teams have won either the conference championship or the SEC tournament since 2000. Looks pretty balanced across the conference. Basketball attendance in the conference is growing every year. The SEC had over 2.3 million attendance last season, with Kentucky and Tennessee being first and fourth in the nation respectively. And I know its been a long five years since you guys had a team that could compete in basketball, but you might want to see how many of your coach’s players stick around after this season and the next NBA draft before you go looking for more competition. As for women’s basketball, heck, the Lady Vols practically invented it. I take nothing from the Big 10. They are great across the board, both in class and in level of competition. It would be sad to see you go, though, and have to give up your automatic bid to the Music City Bowl every year.
"It's not the load that breaks you down - its the way you carry it" -- Lou Holtz
Really?
You’re going to throw away all those years of SEC affiliation because the SEC is perceived as a football-only conference? Florida proved (perhaps foolishly) that they would shell out the cash for a top-flight basketball program. LSU (perhaps foolishly) proved that they’re in it to win it when they grabbed Stanford’s Johnson (couldn’t resist). The Vols are proving they are a strong program. It’ll take time, but there is proof that the SEC is serious about b-ball.
You may get a few extra million out of the deal now, but think long term: the reason this expansion talk is getting pushed is because the Midwest has a negative population growth. The South, on the other hand, has been booming. The SEC has a competitive advantage there.
Mizzou Tigers
I think they stand a legitimate chance to join the big 10. In fact I hope they do, it will be better for the school and sports. I support them if they do, and I hope they do.
"Charles In Charge"
"Defense Wins Championships"
Re: Mizzou
What are their competitive advantages over these teams?
Texas
Texas A&M
Nebraska
Kansas
Colorado
Syracuse
Virginia
Pitt
If you look closely, most of the talk about Mizzou joining has been from the Missouri side. They need the Big 10 more than the Big 10 needs them. Keep in mind that the Big 10 will only add a team if they IMPROVE their conference. That means they have to be better than the average Big 10 member. Academically, they’d be a bottom feeder. Athletically, they add nothing of interest
Most people bring up TV sets or geography or natural rivalries. Geography and natural rivalries matter very little in this decision. Sure, there may be some synergistic effects, but they won’t be enough to overcome their athletic and academic lackluster. The TV sets argument breaks down when you look at the St. Louis and KC markets. Is St. Louis an MU town? No— it is a pro-sports town. Is KC an MU town? No— it is a KU town. Heck, NU and K-State probably have just as much pull there as MU.
There is a reason MU has to campaign for this expansion— they need it more than the Big 10 does.
Wrong.
They both need and could use it just as much. They both could benefit from this and would better the Big 10 and Mizzou.
Oh and I don’t know really or very many KU fans in KC. I see Mizzou Tiger fans all over. Majority are for Mizzou. Few KU.
"Charles In Charge"
"Defense Wins Championships"
to be honest
KC is pretty evenly divided between MU, NU and KU with enough K-STATERS to throw them in the mix.
by huskercarpenter on Feb 19, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
Feel free to explain.
I’m open to hear you out, but you’re going to have to give an explanation. What advantages does Mizzou have over any of those teams?
And as for the KC issue, here is a listing of the two alumni chapters:
Chapter members:
Mizzou: 4,064
KU: 11,081
KU lists 74,558 alumni in the area, but unfortunately Mizzou’s site doesn’t keep that statistic.
http://www.mizzou.com/s/1002/index.aspx?sid=1002&gid=1&pgid=397
http://www.kualumni.org/~kualumni/cgi-bin/kuaa_chaptersgroups.cgi?action=displaychapter&intent=home&itemid=30
Correction
Mizzou’s alumni page estimates it at 20,000 in KC:
20k vs. 74.5k isn’t very even.
Texas
I don’t think Texas making the jump to the Big TEleveN makes that much sense. But, if seems more and more likely, the Big XII is a dead man walking, then it absolutely makes sense. Not just for the money reason, but because Texas will want to take control of its destiny as much as possible, if it looks like the Big XII is doomed regardless of what it (Texas does), and more than 1 team bolting for another conference would doom the Big XII, or even if it looks likely that Coloroado will bolt, then I see Texas looking to get out while it still has options. The Big Ten is the most likely destination for both the revenue it can provide and thus appease the athletics department, and the academic prestige it can provide the faculty (which they are clearly concerned with). the only real obstacle is Texas state politics, if A&M and/or Baylor are a requirement to be taken with Texas, then the deal may be off (and no one should discount the amount of sway Baylor alums have on internal Texas politics).
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Here come the Jayhawks
Just as an FYI, I’m probably the first of many from RCT to come over and participate in this conversation; this post got a FP link this morning.
From a Big XII perspective, if Texas leaves, the conference very well may collapse. Arkansas would be our first choice to replace UT, but after that, the attractive schools drop to New Mexico, Colorado State and TCU. Not exactly in the same league as UT.
That being said, a package of Nebraska-Kansas or Missouri-Kansas (or, in my dream scenario, all three) would be a terrific addition for the Big 10. While not as populous as places like Virginia, Tennessee or Kentucky, they are traditional powerhouses in football (NU) and basketball (KU) and meth production/celebrating the losing the side of the Civil War (MU).
Clearly, the academics would have to improve, but that’s kind of like not admitting a high school senior to college just because he doesn’t have college degree already. It doesn’t make much sense.
I think just about any fan in Nebraska, Kansas or Missouri would jump at the chance, especially considering the possibility UT might up and leave, screwing the rest of the conference. If NU, MU and KU joined the Big 10, ISU would probably be a MAC school, K-State, A&M and Okie State would be good schools for the Mountain West, Colorado and Texas would be great in the Pac-10, Oklahoma in the SEC, and Baylor in the Missouri Valley or Conference USA.
Looking forward to continuing the conversation,
-DC
KU being a charter member of the Missouri Valley conference
the Big 6, Big 8, and Big XII it would be a significant hit to our psyche and identity. I’m not sure how I would feel about that. Maybe if Brasky pants and Miss-Sue came over to the B11 I would feel better about it. As far as people go, I think the people of Kansas have a lot more in common with the people of Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin than Colorado, Oklahoma, or Texas.
Lastly, I’ll weigh in with some thoughts on Texas,
1) I don’t think they’re leaving the Big XII. The original BIg 8’rs knew that inviting the Texas schools in was letting the fox in the hen house. It was only a matter of time before the headquarters was relocated from KC to Dallas and the Texas big boy mentality would take over. We all knew it would happen, and it did. Texas has their own pet conference, they don’t have to answer to anyone (where in the Big 11 they would) they call their own shots, they’re not going anywhere.
2) Does the Big11 really want Texas? See above. Once you let Texas in, it takes over, they’re bullies – it’s just they way they operate.
Me no likey T2.
labba, we might take over this thread like Texas took over the Big 12
I think the BMOC complex with Texas is a double-edged sword. Yes, they might not want to leave the Big XII because they’re THE conference (at least in their eyes), but isn’t it just as likely they would eye the Big 10 and think they could do the same thing there?
As to your first point, while some sort of conference loyalty exists, my greatest fear is that Texas leaves the Big XII. TCU is a POOR substitute (although this post cracked me up: http://www.maizenbrew.com/2010/2/16/1312251/7-reasons-why-texas-joining-the). Arkansas doesn’t bring much to the table, either.
If Texas is looking for the Big XII’s hotter friend, I’m fully in the camp of DTMFA (Google it if you’re not a Dan Savage fan) and pushing to join the Big 10. Even better if NU and/or MU join us. With the financial resources available and the academic competition, Kansas could, in less than a decade, be considered a “Public Ivy.” And having an academic reputation that matches our basketball history and (hopefully) football program’s future is hands-down in the best interests of the University community.
by DCJayhawk0208 on Feb 19, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
They don't call us Harvard on the Kaw for nothing I guess.
Here’s another thought. If we go to the Big11, don’t we essentially forfeit many of the inroads we’ve made in Texas and Oklahoma in terms of football recruiting?
Me no likey T2.
possibly
That could be true. But is playing against the Texas schools three times a year and Oklahoma schools twice a year (having home games twice every four years) really that important? Maybe I’m being naive, but playing the likes of Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin every year sounds pretty enticing to me.
by DCJayhawk0208 on Feb 19, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
true -
but most of those Texas kids are coming up knowing that they’ll be playing in Texas or Oklahoma at least twice a year plus KU games are broadcast in Texas and Oklahoma right now so there’s a lot more exposure than there would be with the Big11.
Me no likey T2.
As a Kansas fan
I’d join in a heartbeat if offered. The problem is that offer is contingent upon what other schools do. We don’t have the strongest resume , so our best chances would come out of a 14 or 16 team expansion scenario.
http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2010/02/15/being-bill-powers/
Even this is unlikely, because we don’t pass the academic or TV set sniff test as well as some other teams out East.
I’ll pop some champaign if we pull it off, though.
Re: Texas
Texas may be arrogant, childish or a bully, but they can afford to be. Their brand, tv sets and population growth are that important. And as much as Texas likes being king of the castle, their administration recognizes that if they fall behind in the media race, they won’t be able to compete nationally.
When ANY team in the SEC gets $17mm/year and ANY team in the Big 10 gets $22mm/year, while Texas gets $10-12mm/year from their tv contracts, it’s clear that they’re fighting a losing battle. You may think that it is chump change for Texas, but there isn’t an athletic department in the country that would walk away from netting a free $5-12 million dollars a year. Especially when your real competition (Florida, Alabama, OSU, Michigan, Penn State) are all enjoying such an advantage.
On the academic side, joining the CIC is a powerplay move that will make that would make this TV money look like pocket change.
The Big 10 is interested in Texas (warts and all), because they deliver what is one of the biggest markets in the country (which is gold compared to the declining population of the rust belt), have a nationally recognizable brand and are a strong academic institution.
So bully or no bully, they need eachother and benefit from one another.
nebraska, kansas and misery
i am a husker fan and having lived in kansas for the last 21 years i have learned to love KU. both institutions have some of the best fans you will ever meet. as far as moving conferences, it would be a change that would be difficult for some to deal with but, i could see this happen.
NU would be a huge help to the conference in football. i know that the pop. in nebraska doesn’t provide that evidence, but there is a huge audience nationwide that would subscribe to the big 10 network. also the tradition of the program and the new direction that the program has been going the last 2 years. they are not to the point they were in the 90’s but they are not far from that. as far as other sports go, no they are not a powerhouse in men’s b-ball, lincoln is building a new arena in the downtown area and this facility will be a state of the art and should help them in recruiting. this new building will not make them an instant success but will help recruiting. women’s b-ball not known as a perinial power, they are ranked 3rd in the country and still undefeated at 24-0
with tom osbourne as the a.d. the athletics overall have improved.
KU, everyone knows the men’s b-ball program is second to none, the football program has been improving over the last few years. now with turner gill as head coach they will be doing things at KU that they have never done before. i’m sure you are thinking to yourself, this guy is a husker, sure he is going to say this. but i have watched turner for the last 30 years and he has been successful at everything he does, he took the head coaching job at buffalo, which was arguably (sp.) the worst football program ever in the history of major college ball and turned them into conference champions. KU football is going to be one of the biggest stories in the country over the next 5 years and beyond, in the sports world.
misery, their fans are not so great and i really don’t much care about them at all, but KU fans do not want to give up this rivalry, so here i go. they do have a very good football program, it has been a very consistant program over the last 10 years, and the last 5 they have won their division or was in the hunt at the end of the year, i do not see any decline coming in the future, i hate to say it but they are not far from taking it to the next level. i am not a big b-ball fan but i do know they are down in the last couple of years, they do have a more cosistant program than nebr. and i would expect to see them improve their status in the next few years.
labbadabba is correct, saying texas is a bully, they want what they want and if they don’t get it they threaten to leave the conference and throw their childish little temper tantrums.
by huskercarpenter on Feb 19, 2010 10:38 AM CST reply actions
agree -
I’ve never known any more devoted college football fans than Husker fans. I remember in the 90’s with Osborne’s last run everywhere I went in the country I saw Husker Red. The northern plains especially. I’m not sure where the belief that the Husker fanbase is small comes from, to me it seems almost pervasive. Granted it doesn’t have the sex appeal that a Miami or USC might have but their fan base is huge and loyal. The Huskers would be a boon to the Big11 network.
Me no likey T2.
Michigan-Nebraska every year?
I could get used to that
Check out Detroit4Lyfe
by handsomerob1 on Feb 19, 2010 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
I remember the last time they played.
That had to be the worst officiated game ever. The Sun Belt crew really outdid themselves.
Agreed
Big Ten officials can’t be that bad… can they?
Check out Detroit4Lyfe
by handsomerob1 on Feb 20, 2010 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
so could i
that would be one of the most violent games every year, would be awesome.
by huskercarpenter on Feb 20, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Anger!
I’m with you, it would be awesome.
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 20, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
thank you
everyone that replied to our posts here were very hospitable, we are from RCT, they provided us a link. more sports fans need to be as polite as you have all been.
good luck to you guy’s, not sure how you guy’s feel about rich rodriguez (sp.) as your coach, but i have always kind of liked him, don’t know alot but what i saw from west virginia i was really impressed they reminded me of some of the Nebraska teams of the 90’s.
by huskercarpenter on Feb 20, 2010 5:23 PM CST reply actions
I'm hoping
his next couple Michigan teams win some hardware that reminds everyone of the 90’s Huskers. Crystal footballs are always nice.
Check out Detroit4Lyfe
by handsomerob1 on Feb 20, 2010 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
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