Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

As Long as We're Talking About It: A 16 Team Big Ten Proposal

UPDATE:  Please read comments.  I mis-read Brian's initial post.  There are still pretty substantial differences in the two proposals, but that part about not every team having a shot at the beginning?  Yeah, that was wrong.  I will stand by the fact that I still think Brian's solution - with rotating groups based on previous year's standings - will be too confusing for your average Big Ten fan to follow, let alone somebody from Ohio State.

This is a response to Brian's 16 team proposal at Mgoblog, which I suggest you read prior to tackling this post.  I reference his post throughout. 

071214_so02fear_vl-vertical_medium

In order to get anything productive done regarding an issue as astounding as a 16 team Big Ten Conference, we're going to have to take some things for granted.  First, I will use the list of proposed teams that Brian has at the aforelinked post.  For the purpose of this post, let's refrain from arguing the merits of these actual teams.  They are designed here as placeholders; nothing more.  In the comments of the Mgo post, ShockFX points out the extremely valid point of where all the monies are going in a 16 team league.  Let's also assume that Delany has that aspect figured out.

Your hypothetical Big Ten (16) would the look like this:

Michigan
Ohio State
Purdue
Indiana
Michigan State
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Penn State
Iowa
Notre Dame
Missouri
Nebraska
Pitt
Rutgers


Under Brian's plan, we've got different variations of the same general concept, which is basically that the league gets divided into four groups based on last year's standings, and have the top 8 play each other, the bottom 8 play each other, and have the the winner of the top 8 as your conference champion.  In addition to the 7 games played against the top 8, each team will play each member of their "group" for a total of 9 conference games played.  At the end of the season, you re-shake the groups based off of previous year's standings, and do it again.  Amongst other things, this solves some problems; namely that under this system there is a good chance that Michigan plays Penn State, Indiana plays Purdue, and Minnesota plays Wisconsin on a more regular basis than simply dividing the conference geographically.  It doesn't guarantee these rivalries will be played annually, but it also fixes the issue of having two teams in opposite sub-conferences only playing each other once every 9 years because at that point, what's the point of being in the same conference?

My concern here is that if a team is relegated to the bottom conference, said team has no chance of winning the conference (at least, as I understand it.  If Brian, or somebody with better reading comprehension than me can point out where I'm wrong, please do).  There is the top-8, then a bunch of teams scrapping to be in the top-8 at the expense of the current season.  What happens to a team that wins it's group of 4, but isn't in the top-8 when the season started?  They get the nice bump into the top-8 for next season, but they won't get a chance to play for the conference championship.  Over the past few years, there have been plenty of conference champions who wouldn't have been in the top-8 under this circumstance.  For example, what if next year Michigan comes out and blows the doors off people.  It's not outside the realm of possible, and yet, Michigan would not have a chance to win the conference. 

My other concern is the fact that the Big Ten's "brand" has to maintain a popularity amongst its fans.  As we extend more and more into college athletics being a business at every level, we need to acknowledge the fact that the Big Ten needs fans to generate revenue, and part of that is maintaining a product that is accessible to everyone who watches it.  I don't know the statistics on this, but my wager is that the majority of the people who read mgoblog, maizenbrew, etc. are among the top tier in terms of both intelligence and "awareness" when you look at the whole of people who would consider themselves "Big Ten fans."  Obviously, if you're reading this site, you care a whole lot more than the average fan.  The problem lies in the fact that Delany and the Big Ten don't care about you, the already paying (or, at least, paying attention) customer.  They're looking to growtheir markets to encompass Joe Casual State of Indiana Resident who likes watching football, but doesn't read blogs, follow recruiting, or really have time to digest the ins and outs of a relegation based system, which is what Brian's proposal - in all its variations - amounts to.  If you make it too complicated - even if the end result is something that is better - people will tune out.

BUT IT WORKS IN EUROPEAN SOCCER!

I would argue that it works in European soccer because that's the way it's always been.  Sports fans over there grow up with that system, and are equally disturbed and confused by our "American League" and "National League" baseball system that seems so innate to us.

Here's a proposal that doesn't solve everything either, and is basically a varient on Brian's "backwards" version.

Get four groups of 4 teams each that are kept the same each year.  It would make the most sense to keep traditional rivalries intact where possible, but keep geographic region in mind as the driving force behind the groups.  For example:

Bo Woody Fry Osborn
Nebraska Iowa Michigan Penn State
Missouri Northwestern Indiana Pitt
Minnesota Illinois Notre Dame Rutgers
Wisconsin Michigan State Purdue Ohio State

Every team plays a true round robin in their respective group, which knocks out 3 games of the 9 potential conference games that are played.  Alternate home/away.  The other 5 conference games are played among the other groups and selected by committee.  This knocks out 8 of the 9 conference games.  The winner of each group - as determined by the round robin followed by a myriad of tie breakers based on the other conference games goes on to play in a 4 team "playoff" near the end of the season.  Those not playing in the playoff get scheduled into 1 remaining game, hopefully against a rival or something like that.  This game, while meaningless for conference title purposes, will still serve to determine final "big 16" standings, and bowl placement, etc.  I would still watch Rutgers play Illinois if I were a fan of either school if it meant that a bowl berth was on the line.

(More after the jump.....)

 

Star-divide

The playoff starts the last week of the "regular" season (conference game 9, if you will).  The final gets played on the same weekend everyone else has their fancy conference championships.  Winner, well...wins.

What this solves

Everyone has a chance to win this thing at the beginning of the season.  To me, that is paramount.  This isn't professional sports (yet...).  The athletes coming on campus need to be sold on the fact that they can work hard, and win a championship.  They get 4 years to do it, then the vast majority get to go be accountants, or pizza delivery boys (in Ohio State's case...zing!).  I believe every year they should have the ability to win this thing.

It also keeps someof the traditional rivalries intact.  In the model above, Michigan plays Notre Dame every year, Ohio State/Penn State, Minnesota/Wisconsin, Indiana/Purdue, etc.  It even manages to keep the two Big 12 teams and the two Big East teams playing each other every year.  My thinking is that each of the "group" games would become so important that rivalries would spring up where there was little reason for hatred before. 

...but it doesn't keep them all.  Michigan would have to rely on out-of-group scheduling for Minnesota, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State etc.  My wager is that the Michigan vs. Ohio State rivalry would largely survive given the fact that they would meet in the playoffs or championship game, and the stakes of that game would simply elevate the rivalry further.  We wouldn't meet every year, but when we do meet, it would be huge.  Until recently, I would also wager that both Michigan and Ohio State would find themselves winning their group more often than not, and thus, it would be more of a rarity should they not meet in the playoffs.

This system would keep interest extremely high over the course of the season, especially if the group games were strategically scheduled to be later in the season.  Michigan vs. Notre Dame for the right to go to the playoffs would be explosively big.  It would also mean that an "out of group" loss wouldn't kill your season.  You could still make the playoffs based on your group's standings.

Problems

The problem that screams out is the potential for a rematch in the playoffs.  If Michigan draws Minnesota as an "out of group" game, then they both go on to win their groups, they could meet again.  My response:  so what?  Are you saying you wouldn't watch?

The scheduling would be funky.  Teams wouldn't find out who they're playing in "conference week 9" until one week prior, which could pose a logistics problem.  The rational behind who plays who "out of group" would have to be defined in some way - either keep plugging away down the list, or keep traditional rivalries alive in cemented schedules.  For example, Michigan would have 5 games to play "out of group."  Two of those could fairly easily be Ohio State and Michigan State every year.  Those games wouldn't mean as much - they'd only be used in tie-breaker circumstances - but bragging rights, etc. would still make it interesting.  After all, Michigan vs. Ohio State hasn't meant anything in 3 years now.  Have you stopped caring?

My primary concern with the system laid out above would be the fact that outside of 3 in-group games, I'm not sure how exciting the remaining 5 games would be in terms of conference championship impact.  Sure, to complete a National Title run or get a BCS at-large bid, those games would be as exciting as ever while you protect an undefeated or 1-loss season.  But Michigan vs. Wisconsin out-of-group probably wouldn't mean that much in terms of whether either team goes to the playoffs.  Win those 3 games in your group, and you're promised a spot regardless of who you beat or lose to out-of-group.  I'm not sure how to fix this...

Thoughts are always recommended in the comments section.  This has been more musing on my part than anything else, and I'm sure that there are numerous holes that you can pick apart.  I think that a system like this keeps things more accessible to your average fan, manages to keep everyone's chances alive at the beginning of the season, keeps traditional rivalries intact where possible, and would provide for an entertaining finish to the season, especially if you put group play towards the end.

Comment 5 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

The old WAC Conference tried this and failed.

What makes you think the Big Ten can make it work? If i was Big Ten Commissioner i would just add one team and have a championship game just like the SEC.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood". Hell is just a word, the reality is much much worse." Event Horizon". Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad dog mean. cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live or win. That's just the way it is. "The Outlaw Josey Wales".

by wolfmanshowlforever on Apr 20, 2010 7:27 PM CDT reply actions  

I think

I think that’s the whole point of this. Delany wants Notre Dame to be that one team. All of this posturing regarding a 14 or 16 team “conference” might just be an attempt to threaten the world-order of college football enough to the point where Notre Dame MUST join up.

http://maizenbrew.com
Get it?

by Beauford on Apr 21, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

MGoBlog's Scenario

I think (and I could be ENTIRELY wrong), that Brian’s suggestion you mentioned above was that the top 8 teams of the CURRENT year after playing the initial round robin in their smaller division would then play another round robin to determine the Champion (the top 2 from each division would form the top 8). So, you could be horrible the previous year, do well in your initial round robin, and qualify for the top 8 to play for the championship. Where as it sounds like you thought it meant the top 8 from the previous year.

by pukhog19 on Apr 21, 2010 10:37 AM CDT reply actions  

I think

you might be right, upon a re-reading with that in mind. So that makes the major difference in my proposal that there is no intermediary 8-team round robin, and in its place you get a 4 team “playoff” at the end of the season.

But even given this scenario, I think that you’d run into a scheduling nightmare once you have to divide the groups of 4 into their respective 8 team divisions. I also think that one of the main reasons for this is to have a championship game, as much as purists are loathe to the idea. So you’re still getting a Round Robin type champion, and you’re losing all the marketing/$$ that comes with a championship game.

Either way, Brian’s initial proposal makes more sense to me now that I’ve read it (hopefully) correctly.

http://maizenbrew.com
Get it?

by Beauford on Apr 21, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

kind of interesting though

by Rick Chaffee on Apr 21, 2010 4:58 PM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

An Unofficial Michigan Football Blog that covers everything related to the University of Michigan Wolverines. We also cover beer, tailgating and the absurdity of college sports in general.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Help Nebraska represent the Big 10 and beat the SEC!
Small
Recruiting Help?!
Picture_1_small
Smotrycz to Maryland
Small
Robinson and Toussaint HIghlight Tape
Img_0616_small
Hardaway/Burke/Michigan Basketball/Samuel Adams
Img_0616_small
The Brew is BACK!
Img_0616_small
Can't stop watching this Mike Martin Video
Tate_small
Spring positions switches

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Maizenbrew_small Maize n Brew Dave

Tumblr_kxe3j1n8021qztjn5o1_500_small Zach Travis

Editors

Hobbes_small Alex Cook

Bo_small Remember Bo

Me_small Dave Ryan

Authors

James_dean_smiling2_small Beauford

Mgoblue_small SCM

Tate_small JC314

Floyd3_small Kyle McCann't

Aa10_small HoldTheRope

373022_198834423566677_135460436_n_small maize_in_spartyland

Dgdestroys_small DGDestroys