Michigan Fails to Capitalize on Opportunities Late, Drops 4th Straight to MSU
by SCM on Oct 15, 2011 7:42 PM CDT
in Michigan Football
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PrintWith six minutes and change left in a football game that the Michigan Wolverines had equally given away and forcibly taken from them, Denard Robinson and Company sat inches away from a 1st and goal and mere yards away from a tying score... Momentum was draped in Maize and Blue; a simple Denard dive was all that separated Michigan from storming back to tie a game that had largely been dictated by Michigan State to that juncture. The march towards the tying score was already casting a pall over the crowd in Spartan Stadium that had watched their team stake itself to a two touchdown lead with equal parts toughness and idiocy. It was the defining moment of the football game...
Michigan had arrived at this point with a struggling offense that had seemingly decided to eschew any sort of adjustment to the constant up-the-middle pressure that State brought throughout the day. This was coupled with a collection of misfires in downfield passing in the midst of a wind that would've been at home at St. Andrews. The ratio of "TAKE OFF DENARD!!!" screams to snaps was far greater inn this game than any other this season, which usually is an ominous forecast of the result. More on this later.
Yet despite those struggles, there was Michigan yards away from a tying score and wrestling control of the football game away from the Spartans in a manner that would've made Mike Hart and Chad Henne proud. In a time where the situation screamed THROW ROCK, Michigan threw out a pair of safety scissors. Urban Meyer described the aftermath of Al Borges calling a slow-developing play action when Michigan hadn't politely given either of its running backs the ball the entire half as: "part of the game" and that it would've been a great call had the corner blitz not been on. With all due respect to a great former coach and a coordinator who both clearly dwarf my football knowledge in an embarrassing way, it was the wrong call on the wrong place on the field at the wrong time. That's three wrongs when even one should raise an eyebrow in the calculus of play-calling. When your offense all day has been predicated on Denard, and everyone in the stadium knows that Denard will be the guy with the ball on the play of the game, running a play action where Denard turns his back to the play on 4th and inches, not 4th and goal, but 4th and inches, just doesn't make much sense. All that was needed was a first down, this wasn't a score or go home situation, you have a quarterback who picks up five yards by simply catching the snap and you don't give him the ball with a chance to read the defense and make a play. Didn't make sense at that time and it certainly doesn't make sense now. Guh.
More after the jump...
Bullets:
1. Michigan fans love to police themselves in regards to discussing anything regarding officiating, throwing around hilarious caveats like "it didn't make a difference in the outcome" or "we wouldn't have said a word about it had we won". So, I say this knowing full well what responses will be: The officiating in this football game was nothing short of atrocious. Two fumbles ruled as incomplete forward passes, a free 15 yards after Baker steps out of bounds (complete with the sideline reporter impersonating Bear Grylls tracking some wild beast... pointing at random cleat marks on the field as though that's more conclusive than the video showing him step on the sideline), no review of the spot on Gallon's 3rd down grab that set up the 4th and inches mentioned above, not even an eyelash batted on the taunting during the pick six (a supposed point of emphasis this year) and deciding to forgo the usual ejection as William Gholston punched Taylor Lewan in plain sight, which leads me to...
2. William Gholston is a despicable football player. I don't care how talented he is, he played like a classless thug today, which ironically, is a direct embodiment of his coach. The facemask rip on Denard is the single dirtiest play I've seen since Robert Reynolds choked out Jim Sorgi in Madison years ago. For an encore piece he connected on a right hook to Taylor Lewan's helmet moments after been driven to the turf on a block. How Gholston was not ejected falls squarely at the feet of the refs; but how his coach will treat him after today will speak volumes about his character and the character of Michigan State's program. Stunningly, he wasn't the only Spartan guilty of playing this way. That Michigan couldn't take advantage of the endless parade of personal fouls makes the loss all the more galling, but the fact that they occurred in the first place tells you all you need to know about how Mark Dantonio and his Spartans play football. That Denard Robinson suffered an injury at the end of the game thanks to this kind of thuggery makes it all the more infuriating.
3. Michigan State's defense - When they weren't busy commiting an endless parade of cheap shots and late hits, the Spartan D actually played quite well. I have not seen a team limit Denard in that way since he arrived in Ann Arbor. The Michigan offensive line was overwhelmed and with no running game or quick passing game to turn to on this day, the Spartans D looked every bit the part of a top ranked unit. I can't help but think that there were multiple times where an accurate throw would've really loosened up the defense, but such is the way these things go.
4. Offensive line - Ugly day... just ugly. The rushing game was non-existent outside of Denard being Denard and the pass protection was, well it was non-existent too.
5. Al Borges - Where were the adjustments? Michigan State's plan was clear from the opening gun, we never made them pay for the endless blitzing. No attempt to rush the football or go to quick outside throws to back off the pressure. No attempts to get outside, to work a screen behind the pressure, etc. A large portion of the struggles can be tied to execution in all portions of the offense, from Denard and Devin to our receivers, to the offensive line and blitz pickups by our backs, but good gravy that was bad. Did we run a single bubble screen, misdirection draw, or speed option? On a day that featured winds that made any kind of passing difficult, Michigan's running backs barely touched the football, hard to reconcile.
6. Defense - Mixed feelings here; two turnovers that should've resulted in 14 points for the offense were great, holding MSU to 21 points on offense was also good... The tackling on key drives however was severely lacking, and the defensive line getting pushed around by an offensive line that was as far from solid as any line we'll face this year was... concerning. All in all the defense played well enough for the team to win the game, but we still clearly have some work to do.
7. 4th and one - No problem with going for it there, momentum was on our side and there was plenty of time, the call simply makes no sense to me, no more analysis than that, there are times when the QB sneak is a perfectly acceptable call, given the gap the MSU D-line was giving up on that play, the call is a QB dive for a first down, period.
8. 4th and 4 on the 36 in the first half - Um so we run a fake FG on the first drive to keep it alive, but 4th and 4 on the 36 is now a punt? Coach Hoke has been pretty much batting a thousand on these kind of calls thus far but this one made absolutely no sense.
9. Denard - Not a banner day, on a day where the wind was going to play havoc with the football anyway, Denard seemed to regress back to throwing off of crazy feet more often than not under pressure, again, in settings where the entire Michigan fanbase was most assuredly screaming "RUN" Denard made throw after throw that sailed wide or over his target. Ironically, the pick six was the correct read and a good throw that Vincent Smith simply wasn't looking for on the hot route... such is life I suppose. Denard is and should be our starting QB, his mechanics are an addressable issue and on a difficult passing day he struggled passing, that isn't necessarily a signal of regression. That said, I'm a little concerned that we don't have a base set of simple passing plays to turn to in instances where teams are going to go man to man on our outside guys and blitz like crazy to force Robinson to throw. It would seem to make sense that we have three or four "go to" routes that let Denard get rid of the ball quickly on high percentage throws, but hey maybe that's just me. I would've also loved to see us work a few more designed runs in for him and I would've loved to have seen him be more willing to just tuck and run more often with State committing to blitzing so often. In the understatement of the year I sure hope he's healthy, the guy played his tail off despite the struggles.
10. The rest of the year - Probably a good time for a bye week, sure would've loved it last week though. Michigan has a lot in this week's game film to look at and gameplan for, going forward. Michigan State basically gave a blueprint for the rest of the teams for how to attempt to slow down Denard. While none of the teams left on the schedule have a defense with the same statistical rankings as Michigan State, there will be plenty of blitzing going forward.
While the loss is obviously disappointing, this team still has the opportunity to play for a birth in the Big 10 title game, and that next step starts with bouncing back against Purdue two weeks from now.
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Great read!
Yeah … more questions than answers today. Hoke already said in his presser that the coaches and the players need to improve and today neither had the best of days. We need to move on though … and beat Purdue soundly before we head to Iowa & Illinois. Go Blue!
Even starting QB's get pulled when they play bad
I hate to say it, and maybe it’s partly the frustration of the loss still lingering, but it may be time to start thinking about giving Gardner more playing time. There’s no way to sugar coat it, Denard was just plain aweful as the QB. It’s 7 games into the season, Denard’s mechanics aren’t going to improve that much. Gardner, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to have mechanic’s problems. This is what happened last year. Solid Big Ten defenses stacked the box and made Denard beat them with his arm, and he couldn’t until those same defenses went into prevent mode and we racked up a lot of meaningless yards.
The only reason we were even in the game at all in the 4th was because State was flagged for 124 yards worth of penalties, or half our total offense.
The truth is, it’s in both the team’s, and Denard’s, best interest to move him to tailback/punt returns over the spring, and move Gardner into the type of QB Borges can work his magic with.
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand, and wrong.
Huh?
I think Gardner showed yesterday that he isn’t ready for big time? Did you not see him miss an open receiver over the middle? The biggest problem was that the kept putting DG in the game and taking the ball out of DR’s hands. Regardless of what anyone says, DR is the most dangerous and best player on the team. You don’t take the ball out of his hand and give it to a guy who has proven nothing. You live and die with DR, and 6 times out of seven he has come though. I put the blame on Borges, make them stop DR at all cost. Taking him out to let DG get a three yard rush? DR is dangerous when he has the ball on ALL offensive plays, not when he is at receiver and getting the ball 4-5 times a game.
Even RR benched his QB when things were bad
Putting Gardner in for 1 play here and there was a bad move, but even RR would put in a backup QB for a full series if he thought his starter was playing poorly. Gardner wasn’t perfect, but his mechanics were never in question. He throws bullets. Denard throws ducks. The simple fact is, you can’t claim Denard is a better passer than Gardner, but you can make the easy case that Denard is a better tailback than all the RB;s combined. That makes Gardner/Robinson QB/RB combo all the more inevitable.
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand, and wrong.
by MosherJordan on Oct 16, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Again making no sense.
You want to take the most dynamic person on your team and maybe the country and make him defendable by sticking him in the backfield and have confidence in an unproven sophomore to get him the ball? How smart is that when you can have him touch it every time and run or pass out of the backfield. The kid completed 62% last year, that wasn’t a fluke. Rich Rod catered to his strengths and made the best of it. If Borges is such a good OC he should be able to get the same. Everyone was mad at RR for not adjusting to his personnel. Where is the outrage for Borges? You have spread players, RUN THE SPREAD! And if I recall the wind was blowing 40mph, Mike Vick would throw ducks in that condition. I don’t believe they even let DG throw against that wind? Most of his throws were going left to right(TV View).
Why didn't
Kirk Cousins throw ducks in those condition? He didn’t, which leads me to believe that there’s no way in HELL Mike Vick would have thrown ducks in those conditions.
Interesting you bring up Rich Rod. Why was MSU (and other top defenses) able to slow down Denard? Simple. They stuff the box, taking away both the run and short passes. They are begging Denard to throw it deep. He hasn’t shown that he can hit a receiver in stride more than 20 yards downfield. I don’t care if you’re running spread, wing t, whatever. It’s tough to beat great defenses if they can stack the box. And we don’t have the o-line of a team like Wisconsin where we can run the ball every play even if you know it’s coming.
The Oh Noes and hitches are enough against a poorer defense, and in small doses against the good defenses. But you can’t execute for 60 minutes against an ohio state or penn state (or apparently michigan state) unless you can take the top off a defense.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
So you watched every ball huh?
Cousins threw the same about of passes and completed just four more than Denard. For just 120 yards. And I don’t recall any of them being more than 20 yards. So you telling me all 24 were bullets? Especially going into the wind? Yeah didn’t think so. You’re right you can’t run the ball with no o-line, especially an o-line that was built for a spread offense but is trying to run a power I. You fail to remember that just a year ago DR went 17 for 29 against pretty much the same defense. What cost him was the INTs. So to say that offense can’t work against that defense is wrong. Funny no one complains until a game is lost. Throw dirt on the only person thats keeping that offense alive.
lol
If you honestly want to compare Cousins’ performance to Denard’s be my guest. Cousins had a couple of big drops that would have made his stat line a LOT better (and this is coming from someone who believes the mainstream media overrates him big time). Remember that first drive? He hit his receiver in stride 50 yards downfield right by the end zone. It was dropped. He had a couple of other bad drops.
Cousins outplayed Denard BIG TIME. What did the wind have to do with that pick six? Or REPEATEDLY missing receivers. He was missing Gallon on 5 yard outs. Cousins was rarely off target and never even came close to being intercepted.
DR may have gone 17 for 29 against the same defense last year, but he also completed 3 passes to players in Spartan uniforms. Can’t do that.
And no one is throwing dirt on DR. You act like saying that he is not a great passer is ripping him. It’s simply telling the truth. He is an amazing runner who can throw bullets on short to intermediate throw, but his accuracy is inconsistent and he simply doesn’t have the arm strength to stretch the field.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
I think Gardner showed
That if he’s going to see significant time, it shouldn’t be sporadic. You can’t just throw a guy in for one or two plays and expect him to assimilate like it’s no big deal. He has no chance to get in rhythm, he’s not on the same page as the receivers, he’s not in the flow of the game.
Two qb system is bs. Either start Devin and move Denard to wr/hb, or leave Denard in except for a couple of trick plays here and there. But subbing Devin in for Denard for one or two plays not only tips the defense off to the fact that it’s a pass, but it makes it much more difficult for Devin to get in any kind of rhythm.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
a couple disagreements
The Refs weren’t terrible and MSU wasn’t being cheap. They played a really solid game, especially their defensive line. I think it’s a bit unfair to blame this one on the refs. Asking the refs for the taunting penalty after the interceptions seems incredibly petty.
What would Yzerman do?
by Huzilla on Oct 15, 2011 9:57 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
sure it's cheap
…. but if i recall correctly, wasn’t he penalized for this play?
What would Yzerman do?
well
you’re probably right, but we still got outplayed. I’m not saying it was the refs best game, but it’s not like we deserved the win today. I mean the officiating wasn’t as bad as the Nebraska Almao Bowl game, where the game was stolen from us. I guess what I’m trying to say, is that the officiating wasn’t worthy of the #1 bullet point?
What would Yzerman do?
They got caught
on almost every dirty play after the whistle. They had > 100 yards of penalty yards and we STILL couldn’t do anything on offense. This game was played with far more emotion by MSU than by Michigan.
And oh yes, get rid of these AWFUL throwback jerseys. There is a reason we don’t wear them anymore.
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
Idiot
I notice you didn’t include the footage of Gholston being being held to the ground by his face mask by the POS that we getting thrown around like a rag doll all game by the MSU defense. You only whine about the results of an UM cheap play. Suck it up and quit whining.
Wahhh. Waaaaaaahhh. My team got beat up in a contact sport!!!! Wahhh!
who's the baby
So your telling me Gholston has no problem trying to break someones neck but when his helmet is held down he gets his panties in a bunch and throws a punch like a little kid? And who’s STILL whining about the little brother remark?all of Sparty nation, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH, a mean ol football player called us a name!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
What?
State wasn’t being cheap? I have approximately 9 personal fouls to show you again… including several plays that were direct intent to injure a defenseless player, “cheap” doesn’t exactly cover the level of thuggery that was exhibited on the field.
That? That deserves nothing less than a C-YA for the rest of the season for Gholston and nothing less.
The refs were awful, was it the sole reason Michigan lost this football game? Certainly not and I never insinuated that it was. The taunting penalty was as clear a violation of that rule as you’ll ever have, why have the rule if you’re not going to call it? The announcers went nuts the second it happened, if you’re going to consider it a live-ball penalty then you have to throw the flag there. Again I didn’t say it cost us the game, I said it was one of a littany of examples of how poorly officiated the contest was.
GO BLUE! http://www.maizenbrew.com/
well
I’m not saying it was the best officiated game ever, but I don’t think it was the worst game ever, and we would have lost this game if it was the best officiated game. We didn’t deserve the win.
I think our disagreement is based on scale, and perhaps you are exaggerating a little to make your point. Gholston should have maybe been ejected, but it can go either way. They called the penalty, I’m fine with it. It’s a rivalry game.
I don’t think the taunting play should have been a flag. The announcers went nuts, boo hoo. Honestly, I thought the announcers were pretty week today anyhow. To me at first glance it looked like the MSU player just celebrating or coordinating a block. But then again, if this was enforced:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_TGuoLdmk&feature=related
you could be right. Either way, it had no impact on the game.
What would Yzerman do?
Shut Up
Football is contact sport. I notice no one on either side is whining about the hands in the face masks by UM players? I notice no one is whining about the cut back blocks by the UM players? I notice no one is whining about the huge amount of holds by the UM players?
It is a contact sport and if any one of you pansies ever would have played it you would know that every team and every game has extracurricular activities. Move on and go figure out some excuses that make sense, like your team didn’t play as well as they should have.
The refs virtually ignored any call they could make against UM and spotted them 120 yards! Your excuse for the loss is that the refs suck? How about the team’s performance? It will take at least three years to repair RR’s damage and by then you all will demand Hoke be run out of town.
Contact Sport
Um, yeah. So punching a guy in the face, landing on the QB after the whistle and ripping his facemask are just “extracurricular activities?” Yes, I did play football, and these types of plays are beyond your typical “playing physical past the whistle.”
MSU played a better game defensively and took Michigan out of their game plan. That’s why the game was won by MSU and lost by UM. It still doesn’t remove the fact that taunting during a touchdown run is an automatic stoppage in play this year. That throwing a wide reciever screen pass where the ball is thrown behind the QB is a lateral.
The bottom line is that Gholston is likely going to see some sort of B1G intervention for those plays, perhaps even a suspension. There’s nothing wrong with playing hard, hitting hard, and being physical. But playing undisciplined and putting on your best UofMiami impersonation only hurts your team.
This game has always meant more to MSU than UM and probably always will. I can guarantee you Hoke would have pulled any player that pulled that garbage on the field. Dantonio however, seems to think that prison cells are just off-season workout rooms. Enjoy your 1 top 10 State of Michigan recruit next year. Sparty’s time with 5th and 6th year seniors holding their team together is over in 2012. Can’t wait to see the badgers put 45 points up on you next week.
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
I dont agree with what gholston did there is no place for a punch, but Lewan held him all day cut blocked and held him by face mask before the punch also the refs missed plenty of calls like lewan and the wideouts blocking downfield on pass plays and many many holdings not called. You can kid yourself if you want but this game meant just as much to the U OF M players as it did MSU.and your last few comments show how bitter and classless you really are , i hope if you have kids they break the cycle and not act like you….i wish great success to U OF M and MSU the rest of the season……….
by Michael Irie Wyatt on Oct 17, 2011 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice trolling...
Try joining in on the conversation prior to the Monday after the game. Try to read the comment to which the response is composed against before you call me bitter and classless. And yes, I do have kids – 2 in fact, and do you know what my 3 year old said when Gholston threw the punch? “Why did he hit him like that, that’s not football.”
Yes, even a 3 year old knows a thug when he sees one. But, that’s why he’ll end up a Wolverine and not a Spartan – he’s smart enough to know right from wrong.
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
Yup
Because holding and trying to break our qb’s neck are the same thing? Straight-up punching a dude after the play is the same thing?
msu got away with tons of holding as well.
I’m glad they didn’t call the taunt, that’s a dumb rule.
And sure, maybe the refs weren’t “biased” toward msu. I don’t think anyone thinks that.
But do not think for a minute that your football team (particularly william “i am a stinking pile of human excretion” gholston) is anything but a bunch of classless thugs who happen to wear the same uniform. BLATANT dirty plays. That’s not football.
You want people to take you seriously on a national level? Don’t act like UM is your Super Bowl. Don’t feel the need to play dirty. Play with class. You would have beaten UM anyway yesterday if you didn’t do those things. So why do them?
It just reinforces the little brother label you’ve been trying to shed. If you are truly better than that, act like it.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
second that...
It will always be a natural tendency to spend time on these particular plays as if they mattered in the end.
He's not blaming the loss on the refs
He’s saying that it reflects on the lack of class of msu. This is nothing new either.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Nothing new correct
M fans have a long & storied history of being whiny losers, and of grabbing at straws to distract attention from their team’s all around very poor play, to non-issues that they can cry about.
It’s cool, you have roughly 12 months to cry over this one before coming up with a new slew of excuses & tears next fall.
Cool story bro
Meanwhile continue to root for thugs and felons who admit to dirty play and try to break people’s necks.
The rest of the country has always and will always view you as a bunch of rednecks with a massive inferiority complex
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
This speaks to the inferiority of you still feel after a victory.
One that you act as a troll, go celebrate with State fans rather than mock the fans that just lost. If you’re want to claim that Wolverine fans would do the same then you’re just proving that you are no better than the people you claim to loathe by showing up here.
Two that you apparently haven’t read a single thing other than the complaints of the “thuggery”, most people here have acknowledged that State would have won that game regardless and by far outplayed Michigan, but you seem to be under the impression that they’re whining that this type of classlessness cost them the game. Nobody said that.
Three, the punch is bad, but ultimately it probably would end up hurting the idiot throwing the punch more than the person receiving it depending on where it landed ( throat versus helmet). But to deliberately jump on and wretch a person’s head to the side after the play was dead could possibly end his playing career. It doesn’t take much to hurt one’s neck and end up with life long problems from it. If it happens legitimately in a play its one thing but in an unnecessary hit its different. But then again these are players being coached by a person who has allowed players back on the team after physically attacking (requiring hospitalization) scholarship athletes from their own university and serving jail time. With that kind of mentality it makes sense why you feel that what Gholston does constitutes football.
After this game and Gholston's thuggery, I say we go back to refering to MSU as FYS again.
That is sooooo not funny - Maize N Brew Dave
A few fair points....
Gholston played out of control. I think the kid has some pretty hard core skills, but even as a state fan, I was shocked he wasn’t tossed. II was also surprised Dantonio didn’t give a statement about the play (like an apology). Although, I did see Gholston run up to Hoke at the end of the game. Curious what was said there.
The zebras weren’t really great either, but there were some calls that didn’t favor state as well. At the end of the day though, the game was about Shoelaces. Right now Michigan is Denard. I’m not sure that’s the best way for the team to succeed. Show me a game where Denard has a weak game and Michigan still wins. I’m not sure many exist. As long as he’s the QB, Michigan is going to run into these kinds of games from time-to-time.
Dantonio encourages that behavior.
You guys think he’s some classy coach with loads of integrity, but he’s really not. Especially when it comes to Michigan. He hates Michigan, and that’s why you’ll never see him apologize for anything thuggish that he or his players do on the field. I wasn’t surprised by any of the classless behavior by the Spartans.
by Big House Jack on Oct 16, 2011 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Waaaahhh!
Are you supposed to love your competition? Most of the country hates UM because of the arrogance that is so undeserved. Ask Mike Hart how he feels about MSU. BTW — speaking about no integrity; why do you think Harbaugh didn’t even consider coaching at UM? That program has always been suspect and now it is being exposed.
Drinking the Green Kool-aid again I suppose.
First off, it’s a football game… Hate? Please.
Is there such a thing a deserved arrogance? Maybe in your world. As for mutual respect among college football programs? I think we’ve earned that right:
Highest winning percentage in college football (0.735), Most wins in college football (890), Most Big Ten Championships (42), Most winning seasons (112), Most undefeated seasons (23), 1 of only 3 teams to hold a winning record over EVERY D-1A conference. Why does the past matter? Because it’s how you gain respect. It’s why Michigan gets ranked #10 in the country after beating essentially nobody except ND.
What infuriates a Spartan? Getting no respect. Response? Calling anyone who doesn’t respect them arrogant. Do you want some respect Michigan State? Then improve on your 7 Big Ten Championships (surpassed by Michigan 42, Ohio State 35, Minnesota 18, Illinois 15, Wisconsin 12, Iowa 11, Purdue 8, Northwestern 8). Congrats, you are tied with Chicago at 7 (who haven’t played in what, 80 years?). You are ahead of Penn State, but they have 3 since 1993. That leaves Indiana with 2. Okay, so that’s a start.
So many reasons to love Mike Hart. My favorite news conference of all time though as he simply mentions little brother once and he might have well have branded it on the foreheads of MSU fans everywhere. How is Mike Hart feeling now? He won 4 in row against you, so I think he feels just fine.
As for Harbaugh? You obviously know nothing about the man. His stated goal was always to be an NFL coach. The 49ers job was his before his bowl game. Are you secretly mad that Hoke in 9 months has taken 8 of the top 10 state of Michigan recruits over that ass-clown Dantonio? Not to mention stealing more important recruits from the Buckeyes.
“That program has always been suspect and now it is being exposed.” Not sure what this means. Perhaps it’s some sort of inside knowledge about transgressions? Not sure. But I’d rather be suspect than be convicted of stealing $150,000 worth of computer equipment from (of all places) the Detroit Public School system and then be welcomed back on the team by your highly ethical and moral driven coach Dantonio.
A troll is a troll is a troll. Even if that troll thinks an Aggie school with a Sheep Research Institute is a respected institute of higher learning and academic prowess. Can’t wait to sweep you again in Basketball. Time to go to your room Little Brother, we have more important things to discuss which you simply wouldn’t understand such as why punching a player in the face is frowned upon by the B1G.
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
Those are great stats
Reflecting dominance in the pre-WWII era of leather helmets, no unification among conferences, and games against teams that actually weren’t colleges, much less universities.
BTW, RE: Sims, Dantonio kicked him off the team for over 18 months, including for several months before he even went to court, eschewing due process. That’s called sending a message. On top of that, you know that he was induced into this by the ringleader, his father, a U-M employee & mid to high level project manager?
May want to not comment on Sims in the future . . .
The Glenn Winston / Chris L. Rucker issues were way worse.
Who lets guys go directly from jail to practice the same day? Who lets a guy who beat the hell out of a fellow MSU athlete back on the team after an extended jail sentence for aggravated assault? Who lets a guy with a DUI during the season back onto the team without any suspension?
I respect the heck out of how well Michigan State plays. I don’t respect the way they act off of the field and after the play. You had the better team yesterday, but your program is dirty.
first one player does not make a program dirty. last year you had a starting wide out who had 3 DUI’ s playing, there are bad on every team so you can lose the wholly crap…
by Michael Irie Wyatt on Oct 17, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Name.
Who, Stonum? He got suspended for a year for his DUI (which was his second). And I do believe your pot-luck brawl involved more than 1 player.
Facts sometimes get in the way of your argument.
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
How about from 1960?
It’s a shame you went to a university that didn’t require math, or you’d be able to do the simple calculations yourself.
From 1960 (To include the craptastic years of Bump Elliot and include your 2 undefeated seasons) :
Michigan – 21 Big Ten Championships. Record 422/159/10. Win % 0.714.
Michigan State – 6 Big Ten Championships. Record 301/259/13. Win % 0.525.
Not recent enough for you? Like to have small sample sizes to prove your non-existant point? ok, past 15 years (to leave out your 0-11 record in 1994, which I remember fondly):
Michigan – 5 Big Ten Championships. Record 137/61/0. Win % 0.692.
Michigan State – 1 Big Ten Championship. Record 106/88/1. Win % 0.544
Funny how the numbers keep popping up the same. Even with your 4 game win streak, you’re still sitting at 4-6 for the last ten years.
As for Sims – Kicking a guy off the team because he was just arraigned on felony charges is no moral high ground, nor is it “sending a message.”
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
you need to get out more tanman , you see MSU shirts hats coats everywhere ,this year ive been to AZ plenty of msu, spent 10 days in UP more MSU fans then U OF M , Big fan support East and South ,maybe not as much as U of M in some states But MSU more than Exists……
by Michael Irie Wyatt on Oct 17, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Lived in several states...
If you mention Michigan State, people ask you how you fit 100,000 people in your stadium.
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
I’ve lived in southern California for the last ten years, never once have seen a Michigan state fan out here until my cousin got accepted … And now he’s in East Lansing… I see U of M (and unfortunately OSU and Wisconsin) nearly everyday
by Lostincali on Oct 17, 2011 9:02 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
why, why, why?
Someone please explain to me why the offense made no adjustments to the seemingly endless blitzing MSU’s defense did? College football is not a new sport. They have been playing it for 142 years now. Every facet of the game has moves and counter moves. It’s a little hard to blame the wind, ref’s, penalties or anything else when you don’t make adjustments to what your opponent is sending/giving you. Yes some MSU players did take cheap shots. They were flagged for the personal fouls, but that is hardly the reason we lost this game. I think Al Borges owes the team an apology for failing to make the adjustments that could have won MU the game. Just my opinion, but that is where I think the blame for this….what ever you want to call it, lies.
You won the game
Because you were the better team. No one denies that.
You also have a coach who is sanctioning blatant attempts to injure (or even paralyze) our players.
That’s why you don’t have a football team. You have a bunch of thugs who wear the same uniforms. Enjoy the win. The rest of the country still views you as a bunch of classless rednecks with an unhealthy inferiority complex.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
I played football and I never punched or deliberately tried to injure someone on the field.
I guess I wasn’t playing the game correctly.
Observation
I believe the defense is so much better than last year and that has won them a few games already this year. Unfortunately I don’t see any improvement in the offense. When a team can shut down the run by Robinson as well as the running backs and force Denard into a passing game the offense is mediocre at best. Denard is never going to be an NFL QB so why not make the switch now and have Gardner at QB with Denard in the slot? With all of that said give State their due they won with a good game plan. Coach Hoke will get the Wolverines back to their winning ways.
Who Cares?
Who cares if he won’t be an NFL QB? There are tons of starting college QBs that won’t be pros. What does that have to do with him playing football in college? Like I said before, they messed up the rhythm of the offense taking the ball out of his hand and trying a bunch of trick stuff. You live and die with the man that got you there. Gardner hasn’t proven anything. Matter of fact, he cost them a TD with his inexperience and locking in on a receiver. Denard is not a slot receiver, he is the starting QB. The man that is the most dangerous on the field and touches the ball on EVERY offensive play. You don’t take the ball from Denard and give it to a someone thats not battle tested and expect him to get it to the best player when that said player can do it himself. The defense can defend Denard better in the slot or when he is behind the QB, its much harder when he is the first to touch the ball. The kid needs help. Before blaming him, watch his o-line when he is making throws. Is he always being protected? What about the three running backs that can’t find a hole? What about “butterfinger” Roundtree? Its not all DR’s fault. Funny everyone is ready to turn on him and turn to an unproven Sophomore, when if it wasn’t for him(DR) they’d have more than one loss.
Totally agree with you
RE: NFL prospects matter not right now, and that college coaches should absolutely not be making personnell decisions based on how those decisions impact someone’s pro prospects. Denard is a dynamic college player, an All-American & maybe even Heisman candidate, doing what he does. Whether his style & talents translate to an NFL career is completely irrevant to what he does on the college field. Just because Eric Crouch never made it in the NFL, or bc Charlie Ward played hoops instead of football, doesn’t take away from the fact that they were great college players.
I’m by no means an M or Denard fan, but to take away from what he does right now bc it may not work on the next level is absurd.
And I also agree that taking the ball out of his hands is foolish right now. M will be better off as a franchise, IMO, once it gets Morris or another big time traditional QB on the field, but in the meantime, knowing that Denard is a threat to break it on any given play, it makes no sense to me to not have him handle the ball on every play.
another fourth straight loss !
hey great article , all were valid points ! i want to say congrats to sparty , the spartans had their special open date before playing michigan and was prepared . also there were some cheap shots during the game and i believe the players were coached to do so ! that is ok for those of us who play football before , my problem is with the michigan offensive line which allow that to happen . if u are a michigan fan ? i don’t recall a michigan line from the bo era ever allowing their quarterback to take shots like that , and not responding by a old fashion chap block or a few . trust me that would have slowed sparty down and made them think twice . that has always been a unwritten rule in football if you take shots at the quarterback . this is heated battle and offense should take that 15 yard penalty in order to send a message . right now it is a question of toughness , and michigan gotta show some of that the remainder of the season . michigan fans have to face it , denard is a hybrid running back/receiver/wild cat quarterback . brady hoke should start devin gardner , and produce special plays for denard in the offense . michigan have to force teams to play honest with the vertical pass game .
Been having great years ever since 2002!
Between my Michigan undergraduate engineering degree and my medical school degree I’ve been doing great! Have fun working for my fellow graduates Sparty! See ya next year!
The mere hiring of Coach Hoke has sent Pryor and Tressel packing...
LaMarr Woodley
Remember 2004, separated Stanton’s shoulder – no penalty, no ejection, no suspension. And how is that different?
MSU fans
I have decided to not engage in sports discussion with them anymore. Last week I got called a Walmart Wolverine for the first time, and 20 more times. Since I got accepted to UM but enlisted instead, I was called dumb trailer trash by MSU fans. All because I opened my mouth first and said that MSU fans are just upset that Michigan has a national fanbase, and no one really cares about or knows about MSU except MSU Alumni. Wait, I said MSC alumni. Maybe I deserved it. Forever Maize and Blue.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13
Probably a good call
It kills me when MSU fans that went to GRCC or GVSU call Michigan non-alums “Walmart Wolverines.”
by Alex Cook on Oct 17, 2011 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
same can be said for U OF M fans tiger, for every Uof M fan that went to U of M 100 did not and those are the fans that are the worse. MSU has them to but dime store woverines are the absolute worse..so which are you…
by Michael Irie Wyatt on Oct 17, 2011 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a freshman at U of M
Not that it matters. I would have been perfectly content to call myself a Michigan fan if I’d gone to Northwestern or Wisconsin.
You would have been an M fan
If you went to Wisconsin? (Makes skeptical face)
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Im also a Michigan student and had I gone to any other school, I definitely still would have been a Michigan fan. I would have worn Michigan whenever they played at the school I was at.
by wolverine15 on Oct 18, 2011 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
My parents both went to Michigan
and graduated from the B school. I grew up watching every game and had season tickets so I was at a lot of the home games. I would have rooted for Wisconsin, but still would pull for UM if they played against each other.
Fair enough
I don’t know if you would have survived Camp Randall on a UM-Wisconsin gameday, but I admire your loyalty
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
I definitely wouldn't have advertised my fandom aggressively.
A maize shirt probably would be an invitation to get a beer bottle to the head.
I live in Madison
I’ve been to several games sporting M gear and had no problems.
Man, there are some award winning comments/commenters in this thread
from both fanbases. Did I take a wrong turn and end up in ESPN or Yahoo’s commenting section instead?
What Gholston did really isn’t defensible. Reactionary? Yeah sure. Understandable? Eh. 19 year old kid playing as a starter in the biggest game of his career while wearing jerseys he helped design? I don’t think there’s a 19 year old out there who isn’t going to have that go to his head and think he’s hot shit and do some stupid stuff. Especially if there’s some guy smashing your face into the field.
It really doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong here, the fact is a punch was thrown. Dantonio was pissed about it afterwards, but I don’t think even MSU fans can really say Dantonio has a spotless record when it comes to discipline. I believe Gholston sat out one or two drives after that incident, but that was about it.
The entire game was filled with garbage: Garbage calls by the refs, garbage plays by UM, garbage reactions by MSU, plus actual garbage flying across the field. I’d say it’s not a moment to be proud of for either program.
That said, I want Gholston disciplined. If he’s playing in the Wisconsin game (remember, MSU has until Wednesday to completely respond to the incident — today’s press conference does not necessarily reflect their final stance on the matter), I will be sorely, sorely disappointed.
Lastly, did anyone look at the postgame press conference reactions? Hoke, Denard, Molk, pretty much every one of them shrugged off anything that’s being called dirty. Same with Kirk Cousins. They all essentially have said the same thing: It’s football. If the players who were ACTUALLY INVOLVED in the incidents we’re freaking out about are big enough to move past them, surely the rest of us who are hundreds or thousands of miles away can too.
But then again, we’re the rabid fans and they aren’t. This is also the internet and rational thinking be damned on the internet. I should really just delete this whole post and replace it with LOL MICHIGAN 4 LOSSES IN A ROW.
"The open threads on game days are like fevered dreams: Everyone is hammered and then shit gets burned." - Truffle Shuffle
by The Ghost of John Hannah on Oct 18, 2011 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a UM alum
but I still bleed Maize and Blue. I don’t work at Walmart (refuse to shop there), and I’m pretty well educated, and far more well-traveled than probably most of you reading this. One doesn’t have to be a UM alum not to be a moron—however it probably does help! lol
I agree with posters who said Michigan didn’t lose the game bc of MSU’s thuggery. We would’ve lost anyway. The thuggery was not necessary, and was classless. I am a rare UM fan who actually roots for MSU as long as they’re not playing UM. I’ve rooted for them every game this season (and last, etc) except for the one played Saturday. Hell, I even thought they got screwed out of the Rose Bowl last year. But then,, the way they went down to ’Bama probably shows that the right team went in the end. But I will not be rooting for them for any more games this year.
I’m very disappointed in the lack of integrity of the MSU players and coaches.
And I have to give Talor Lewan props for taking that punch like a man. If I had been on the receiving end of it I’d probably have either 1. ran crying for my mama or 2. beat the shit out of Ghoulston. :)
by futureUofMfbmom on Oct 19, 2011 2:28 PM CDT reply actions
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