Defending Dave Brandon, "The Process," and the Direction of Michigan Football
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 3, 2011 11:59 AM CST
in Michigan Football
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Yesterday the University of Michigan Football program welcomed 20 new young men into the fold. Head Coach Brady Hoke and his staff did a phenomenal job bringing in a 20 person recruiting class, much of which filled some dire needs for the program. Michigan stocked up on defensive linemen, linebackers, and defensive backs as though they would cease to exist in the future. Michigan secured an elite tight end, top of the line running backs, a monster of an offensive guard, and a talented center. All in all, it was a great day for the Michigan Football program.
Yet, despite this, there are rumblings out there that this class should have been better. Why didn't Michigan have an elite defensive tackle or another offensive lineman? Why is Michigan only 21st on Rivals' list of recruiting classes. Someone is to blame for this. Someone has to be to blame for this. Oh, I know, it's all Dave Brandon's fault.
As far as the end result of The Process: Michigan is two scholarships short pending tomorrow's Willingham commitment, which right now looks like it won't go M's way. In addition, they're carrying Mike Williams—a likely medical redshirt—and at least two more players who could have not gotten fifth years after graduating this spring. Michigan forewent up to five additional recruits thanks to the awkward timing of The Process. (emphasis mine)
And somehow this tunnel-visioned narrative has gained a likewise ill-informed national voice:
Best salvage job: Michigan's Brady Hoke. Given that AD Dave Brandon left Rich Rodriguez hanging in the wind until after the Gator Bowl and did not hire his new coach until Jan. 11, Michigan's 2011 class seemed destined for disaster. The Wolverines went more than a month after the regular season without adding a new commitment.
Michigan comes away with a top 25 class that addresses some of it's most crucial needs (re: all of our defense) and yet supporters of the program and national voices are saying it underachieved. Maybe Mgo was right about something:
This program will eat itself alive if given half a chance.
Well, we agree on that. But not much more. Over the last month I've largely held my tongue regarding criticism of the program, the coaches and the AD. I understand that there was and is some frustration over how things went down in the hiring process and attempted to assuage those concerns with a lengthy explanation of what actually happened in comparison to our predispositions. Recently, however, I've noticed that attitudes haven't gotten better. In some instances they've gotten worse. And when Michigan inks a great recruiting class and people are blaming the AD for it not being better, something is really, really wrong.
And I think I speak for a number of people when I say we're sick of it.
As a fan, and as someone who intently covers Michigan athletics on a daily basis, this irrational need to parse out blame, especially when there is no blame to be parsed, is one of the most frustrating and irrational aspects of this endeavor. What I also don't get is how in God's name people can look back at the hiring process and blame Dave Brandon for doing his job. And even more puzzling, how you can blame Dave Brandon for a coaching search that netted a good hire and a good recruiting class. If you do this you fall into two categories:
1) I believe Rodriguez was fired after the Ohio State game and Brandon needlessly held up the process by going sailing with Bill Martin or something like that; or,
2) I can't believe we hired Hoke when we could've had Harbaugh, Miles, or some other hot coordinator as our new head coach.
If you fall into either, or both, of those categories nothing that Hoke or Brandon does will ever be good enough for you. You detest your AD for, in your mind, stupidly holding up a crucial process that determines how Michigan will perform on the field in the years to come. In your mind he doesn't understand how the recruiting and college football process works or he would've just gotten it over with and fired Rodriguez after the OSU game. While you are welcome to your opinion on this matter, here are some factors you may want to consider before start ranting on your message board.
First, Dave Brandon WAS a college football player. A Michigan college football player. He played for Bo. He knows what it's like to be recruited (to an extent, he was recruited when everything was still being photographed in black and white). He understands the pressures on the kids making these decisions. Second, he's been involved in recruiting as an adult in a passive voice and assistant in the process for years. A man who played for Bo, is unquestionably one of Bo's most successful non-football alumni, and a generous donor to the program over the years, has undoubtedly been used as a resource in this process before. Third, he understands what recruiting means. He's been trough it as a player and seen it as an athletic director. He understands and knows how much time and effort go into the recruiting process. Fourth, he understands what deadlines and time frames mean. He knew that recruiting was a priority, and he knew what kind of time crunch Michigan was under.
Fifth, and this is probably the biggest thing to consider, he most likely DIDN'T WANT TO FIRE RODRIGUEZ. Think real long and hard about this folks. Michigan was projected by most sources to go 5-7, 6-6, or 7-5 with all aspects of the team improving over the year in 2010. Michigan won seven games and lost it's last two game to the two best teams in the conference. Michigan was at 7-5 and in a bowl game. A good bowl game. Rich had done, to that point, what he needed to do to save his job. They'd finally beat the teams they were supposed to. Michigan had recruited decently over the last two years. Michigan had a number of players coming back. Michigan had been plagued by injuries which Rodriguez could not control. How in the world could he fire Rodriguez after the regular season was over?
He couldn't. Rodriguez had done his job. If we are to believe the proposition that Michigan was just a respectable turnover margin away from being awesome, then the proposition that Rodriguez was largely secure after the OSU loss is even less of a stretch. Rich had achieved bowl eligibility and was going into a bowl game that would likely solidify his status as Michigan's head man. I mean Michigan was playing Mississippi State. Mississippi State! One of the prominent doormats of the SEC. A respectable showing in the Gator Bowl and all was going to be fine. He had a month to get ready, players were coming back healthy, they could finally run the complete offense and fix the defense. We'd finally see the UConn game again, except this time on New Years. He had a month.
Instead, Michigan was completely embarrassed on national television. Michigan was incompetent on offense and might as well have not shown up on defense. This after a month to get healthy, to practice, to prepare. And Michigan was playing against a spread option offense it sees every day in practice. And they were blown out by 38 points. Michigan's OMG INCREIDBLZ offense scored 14 points. 14. But hey. It was a 100% improvement over it's prior game. They'd only scored 7 points against OSU.
21 points scored in Michigan's last two games while surrendering 89. 0-6 against Michigan's biggest rivals in games that were less competitive each year Michigan played them. One winning season in three years. A defense that not only got worse year to year, but got worse game to game. And a 38 point loss to an SEC doormat. These aren't opinions folks. They're facts. And when Michigan got shellacked in the Gator Bowl it forced Brandon's hand. There's only so long you can look past obvious problems before you have to make a change.
Had Rodriguez' coached Michigan to a win or a close, competent loss in the Gator Bowl I have zero doubt he would still be Michigan's head coach. A respectable game would've shown his coaching chops, that the team could improve with practice, and that two losses to BCS bound schools were anomalies. He could've shown that the team was getting better. And that's what Brandon was counting on. That's why Rodriguez was still there for the Gator Bowl. Brandon didn't keep him as the head coach for that game because he's a nice guy, or because he was busy with a complicated sukodu. Brandon kept him because prior to the bowl game it was the right move. All Brandon had to wait on was a decent game.
But he didn't get it. Rodriguez' last game was an embarrassment. So, whether I personally like the guy or not, he had to go. That's why "The Process" didn't start until January 5th when Rodriguez was fired. There's your delay folks. At most a whopping three to four days. None of this month BS. At worst Brandon waited for the team to return, Rodriguez to gather himself, and fired him within three days of returning to Ann Arbor. I don't know about you, but I find that reasonable.
And here's one other thought on Rodriguez' firing as pointed out by the Detroit News' Bob Wojnowski. Can you imagine the hell that would've been raised if Michigan canned Rodriguez and immediately announced Hoke's hiring? I'll let Wojo's take on this stand by itself:
But for all the doomsday predictions, the Wolverines recovered just fine. I never had a problem with athletic director Dave Brandon's timetable, firing Rodriguez after the bowl game. If he'd made the move for Hoke in early December, cripes, just imagine the divisive clamor from those who wanted Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles.
There was no decision to fire Rodriguez before the bowl game just like Hoke wasn't a guaranteed hire until he was announced as Michigan's head coach. When you break it down, even a little, it's clear that there wasn't some crazy lag in the decision making process. Brandon did what he had to do when Rodriguez forced his hand.
For the Second proposition, that Michigan should've hired a big name, I've also addressed this previously. Let me save you some time. Harbaugh was going to the NFL. Period. Full stop. It was a nice thought while it lasted, but Jim wanted NFL money, not to have to recruit, to stay in California, and to continue doing things his way. He wanted to be in the NFL and Michigan is not a stepping stone to that job for head coaches. This is it. There are no other jobs. As for Miles, he was never offered the job. No one even knows for what was discussed or if Miles and Brandon actually met (though it's pretty safe to assume they did). You can follow flight tracker all you want, but Miles burned any chance of being Michigan's head coach when he was in Ann Arbor the first time.
This brings us to the next part of the question: who else was Michigan supposed to go after? I've heard people bitch and moan about how Michigan should've hired a good coordinator as their head coach. Okay, who? Who was an available top-flight coordinator? Who could've salvaged the defense and made it... okay? We just had one offensive genius, did we want another who'd install a new system and pay no attention to defense? On defense, who could Michigan have gotten? What big name without Michigan ties was available and had legitimate coaching chops?
So Brandon set out to answer those questions. From the moment he fired Rodriguez until the day Hoke stepped up to the podium he was out looking for the right head coach. He interviewed coaches with other jobs, he kept it quiet, and he delivered the best coach he could find in six-bleeping-days. And he got it right. "The Process" as you call it, worked. "The Process" delivered Michigan a good man, a decent head coach, a stellar recruiter, and a Michigan Man in less than a week.
And yet Michigan fans, and others, sit there are blame Brandon for doing things the right way. For instance:
This is a stupid hire. It will always be as stupid hire and David Brandon just led the worst coaching search in the history of Michigan football. He managed to chase off half of an already iffy recruiting class, hired a Plan C coach on January 11th, probably ensured the transfer of the reigning Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year, and restricted his "national search" to people who'd spent at least five years in Ann Arbor. Michigan just gave themselves a year of USC-level scholarship reduction voluntarily.
There are so many things wrong with this sentiment that I can't even begin to parse them out without my eyes bleeding. To be fair to MGo, this was written right after the Hoke Hire on January 11, 2011. Also to be fair, I wrote this before Hoke was hired, but during the time he "first came under consideration." On the morning of January 11, 2011, I was ill-informed and ill-tempered. I also had the courage to either admit that I was wrong or at least put aside my biases to welcome Hoke back to Michigan.
But instead, there's a constant string of jabs, complaints, and recriminations. There's even complaining about the ethnicity of the coaching staff. Now we're blaming the AD because Michigan didn't sign five other highly touted recruits in a recruiting class that would've struggled to hit 20 even if Rodriguez had been retained!
Enough.
"The Process" got Michigan through a tough situation. "The Process" hired a qualified coach, Michigan faithful, excellent recruiter, and all around good human being in six days. The results of "The Process" are 20 kids who want to play at Michigan and some kids that actually play defense. I'm pretty satisfied with "The Process".
I'm sorry if "The Process" didn't turn out the way you wanted it. I'm sorry if "The Process" means we're going away from the yardage rich, scoring poor spread offense. I'm sorry if "The Process" means we're going back to the old pro-set, boring Michigan football you didn't like. I'm sorry if "The Process" means you're going to miss telling us how many yards Michigan racked up in the second half of games in an attempt to scream "REMAIN CALM! ALL IS WELL!" I'm sorry if "The Process" means you'll miss all those things.
You know what I miss?
Winning.
And I'm banking that "The Process," Dave Brandon and Brady Hoke deliver what Rodriguez' offense and missing defense couldn't.
Wins.
Because we now know he can deliver recruits.
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"The Process"
This will be short — great article and I agree with it in total. I also hope that the Big Blue alums of the world just simply be supportive of the next chapter in Michigan football. Best to coach Bradya nd the Wolverines!
I agree
I agree with you here.
I think Brady Hoke was the best hire available this year, but if RR had been fired a year in either direction we might have had better looking options-at least on the surface. I support Brady Hoke wholeheartedly and hope he can turn around Michigan and soon….I’m fairly young, so I started watching Michigan football towards the end of the 2005 season. So Michigan has had 1 “great” year as long as I’ve been watching them and I’ve read and heard about how good they once were and I want those days back, and I think Brady Hoke is the best option to coach the Wolverines.
Wow!
Thoroughly impressed with this. I am not one of the fans that thought Brandon handled “The Process” poorly, but I will admit that the article definitely put the whole situation in a much better perspective for me.
Now I am looking forward to seeing what Hoke can do with these guy next fall.
Unlike most here
I am one who feels Brandon handled the situation, the firing, and the HIRING very poorly. Brandon simply followed the mistakes made by Martin when he flew all over the country trying to “buy” a new head football coach from amoung the BIG names, only to be publically turned down by each one. Martin finally settled on flying to West Virginia to hire Rich Rod, without so much as floating the name around to the Michigan Alumni who contribute so much money to the school, and thus believe they run it. Martin made the University of Michigan look like a joke by being turned down by so many “Michigan Men” before hiring RR, and Brandon has followed suit once again, working his way down the chain to finally giving Hoke the job just so it was filled. Brandon cost the team a much needed and highly rated safety, a higher rated Corner, and much better QB than Hoke brought in, and that Defensive Line Man that some articles are now suggestion Hoke poach from lower talent than RR had leaning by raiding mid major school recruits away from those schools. Add the 3 star OL, and the 4 star LB, and you begin to see the damage Brandon’s handling caused the team. I expected much better, more class. His off the cuff remark about Tate is no longer with the team at a National Press Conference was tasteless. NO COMMENT was the answer to that question at that time. The kid gave two years of his life to the school. He deserved better. He deserved privacy. Brandon didn’t allow it. And lastly, Brandon is a bean counter, nothing more. The reason so many jobs have been lost across the country is that Corporations put bean counters in charge of their stores. Giving “permission” for the Miami Dolphins to interview Harbaugh was nothing more than making sure the Dolphin owner continued to donate huge amounts of money to the U of M every year. Expect the program to be ran by the will and whisp of the contributing faithful from this point forward. Ethics doesn’t seem to have a lot of room in the meetings any more. JMO, of course. But I tryly an disappointed in how this was all handled. I expected better from the U of M I grew up loving and supporting. And I’ve been around a very long time.
Absurd.
I am tempted to remove your site from my favorites list now. I am a long-time and most passionate Michigan football fan. And I have suffered. You defend Brandon and Hoke because they are Michigan men. This MICHIGAN MAN crap has gone far enough.
You are basically saying RR was fired because of one game – MSU. Well here is some breaking news for you. MSU was NO DOORMAT this year as witnessed by their few close losses to top 10 type programs this year. Michigan also lost to some rather respectable programs: Iowa, OSU, Wisc., and our own MSU.
But RR was not afforded his 3rd recruiting class because of the NON-MICHIGAN MAN witch-hunt. RR would have had his offensive players finally seeing maturity for next season, with a returning QB for the first time, and I am confident he could have found a new D-coordinator to guide his healthier, more mature, and deeper defense. He could easily have gone 10-2 next year. Regardless of what you think. The man can coach and is highly respected elsewhere.
But the Michigan Man noise was so loud RR was replaced by Brandon’s (don’t let anyone kid you) third choice (at best). And you think it hinged on one game? How naive.
So now we have a recruiting class with zero 5 stars, a few borderline 4 stars, a 2 star kicker, and the remainder are 3 stars. Pardon me while I celebrate with a glass of radiator fluid. woopie!
I hope you enjoy your elderly coach and prehistoric defensive co-ordinator (who needs an ambulance when he merely falls down).
It’s back to the future with these new old guys. You got your Michigan Men. Good luck with that. I can’t wait to go 9-3.4 every year on average, like LLoyd. I bet the Saban’s of the world are shivering.
I am not happy. Turnabout is fair play. And I will criticize this hire till we get a NC (screw the big 10 championship). The hot-seat is now Brady Hoke’s, whoever he is.
Good luck to Rich Rodriguez, who will come back to haunt Dave Brandon. And probably from somewhere like LSU.
"...you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky?
Well, do ya, punk?"
by The Blue Planet on Feb 3, 2011 1:33 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
One question.
Why did the defense continue to get worse? Demonstrably, quantifiably worse?
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
Too many reasons to count
poor recruiting, poor talent when he got there, poor coaching of the kids that were there, poor decisions on hiring DCs, flame outs of highly rated recruits, transfers of under performing ones…
The list just goes on and on. To me, it’s his coaching hires and poor recruiting decisions on the defensive side of the ball that doomed the defense. That and INSISTING on playing a defense that does not and cannot work at this level.
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 3, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
I couldn't agree with you more
That’s why I ultimately soured on the RR hire.
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
"That and INSISTING on playing a defense that does not and cannot work at this level."
Let’s not put all the blame on the 3-3-5, a defense that when run correctly can be very effective at the college level.
ANY defense can work if it is run right and coached correctly. That has been our problem for the last two years (I give ‘08 a pass because they did about the best they could on the other side of Threetidan and the Yakety Saxes), we didn’t have the right people to teach the defense and call the plays, and that meant out players were lost on assignments and frequently out of position. Take away the total demolition of the secondary by biblical plagues last year, we still didn’t ever have someone who could run the defense right.
That is absolutely on Rodriguez, and even though I have been and will continue to be a supporter of what he was trying to do and doing at UM, I will readily admit that he made a huge mistake hiring defensive assistants and dictating scheme. There was a lot of bad luck to go along, but he set about on a bad course.
However, I don’t think the 3-3-5 is death in a playbook. It is simply another scheme that needs to be taught and run correctly. It can be adjusted to play power teams (remember ’09 when we stacked the box against OSU?) and it can be spread out to be effective against spread teams. UM just never had anyone to teach it right in practice and call it right in games.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
this really hasn't been fleshed out, but
Zach and Dave, do you think the 3-3-5 works in a conference more suited to flashy passing attacks than the Big Ten? Obviously inexperienced personnel also contributed (having a 5-man secondary with a very depleted secondary didn’t make much sense) but also not really stacking the 3-3-5 to ever deal with the run meant that big, physical teams like Wisconsin and Iowa could run right over us.
It worked in West Virginia (Casteel still runs it well, to the tune of the 3rd-ranked defense nationally) but again, these aren’t against the gigantic lines the B10 trots out on a regular basis.
Go Maize, Blue, and Gray!
Jimmy's and Joe's
…not X’s and O’s. The 3-3-5 is almost always a “multiple” 4-man front with a LB on the line of scrimmage…
http://maizenbrew.com
Get it?
I do think the 3-3-5 could have worked, I just think with the personnel that UM had last year we were limited.
The 3-3-5 is an attacking defense that works best when it blitzes from any and all positions in the box. With three LBs and two SS you should be able to send one or two guys on a regular basis to try to find a mismatch in blocking. It is a high risk, high reward defense that isn’t built for an eight man zone every play. Robinson just didn’t know how to teach it (see Demens lined up 2 yards off Martin CONSTANTLY) and didn’t know how to call it. Guys like Casteel and Rocky Long can turn out effective 3-3-5 defenses because that is their thing. Robinson’s thing is a bland 4-3 with a bunch of pro athletes (also applies to his time at Texas). He doesn’t make players better.
I think a lot of the teams problems can be traced to youth in the secondary. It completely changed the way the defense was game planned, it took away any real blitizing threat, and it allowed teams to pass almost at will. We really had nothing to do but sit back and let teams move down the field slowly. Once teams were scoring on better than 50% of their drives the UM offense was looking at getting the ball on it’s own 20 more than half the time. This is why UM led in yardage but was 5th in scoring: consistently terrible field position and a lack of any semblance of a kicking game to pick up points when long drives stalled.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
I agree in principle
How many times did we see players who were covering pieces of turf, instead of nearby players in their zone? That’s bad coaching. If you watch film from UConn and ND, you see the players are MORE confused as the year goes on. Either the kids are smart enough to get into Michigan, but too dumb to get a football scheme, or, it’s bad coaching.
While I find it hard to blame GERG so much for the failure to coach a scheme he didn’t know or want, the scheme is not at fault. In essence, it’s really no too different from the 4-3 over/under Hoke mentioned everyone is suddenly hailing, according to my day and a half of research on it. (I had to ask what the over under meant during the presser, and Ive been watching and playing football for 26 years now)
In the 3-3-5, as mentioned, it is almost NEVER 3 men on the line. There is nearly always a LB on the strong side, which is the same number and placement of bodies in a 4-3 over. The 3-3-5 gives flexibility, but the freshmen in the secondary who couldn’t cover a wall with 5 gallons of paint wouldn’t allow the type of blitzing needed to releive the pressure. In short, if Mike Martin wasn’t in someone’s face, he had the time. Additionally, even when a blitz was called, I often found myself screaming as I watched a kid run unblocked into the backfield, right at a spot on the ground where the QB would be if he too a 7 step drop and never moved. I can almost see the drill in my mind of the kid blitzing off the weak side into a big blue weeble-wobble target, exploding through it, just as he was coached. Trouble is, that angle never accounted for the QB actually moving, so he heaed right on by, waving as he ran upfield.
"poor talent when he [RR] got there" ... really?
M&BDave: sorry, but I got to call you out on that one. Coach Carr did NOT leave the cupboard bare.
The ’08 defense was better than the ’09 defense which was in turn better than the ’10 defense. Carr left talent (e.g., Graham); RR failed to replenish it.
There were significant roster problems when Rodriguez arrived. There was no depth or experience on the offensive line, ditto QB, the receivers were mostly young as well. The only offensive position group with any real depth and experience was running back, but both Minor and Brown struggled to stay healthy over their careers. This kept the offense from being productive at all over the ‘08 seasons, and contributed (along with unfortunate injuries at key positions—QB and C) to the inconsistency in ’09. Struggling offenses don’t make life any easier on the defense.
Defensively, yes, there was a bit of talent left over in ‘08, but the linebackers were still all young, and there wasn’t any quality depth in the secondary behind Warren and Trent. In ‘09 the team lost the core of its defensive line (Jamison, Taylor, Johnson), as well as one of the top CBs (Trent). The line recovered with Martin and Van Bergen stepping up. The secondary still hasn’t because of injuries, attrition, and just plain bad luck. It has to be a perfect storm of circumstances to see a bunch of freshmen and a walk on getting all the playing time in the secondary for an entire year.
Rodriguez has brought in quite a bit of defensive talent to fill holes. Roh, Martin, and Demens have already proven to be very good defenders, while guys like Jones, Hawthorne, Gordon, Bell, Ash, Wilkins, Black, Johnson, and Robinson are all still underclassmen who were fairly well thought of coming in (5.7 and above on rivals). The thing everyone focuses on when they say Rodriguez failed to replenish defensive talent is the guys who washed out; either by transfer (Lalota, Turner, Emilien) or other reasons (Dorsey not being granted admission, Cissoko going thug).
The reason the defense looked so bad was 1) most of the bad luck hit the secondary over the past two years, and 2) The LBs never progressed like they could have, and none of the young players could beat them out for the spots until Demens replaced Ezeh midway through this year. Blame the second one on the coaching staff (even though Ezeh was a middling recruit and all his backups were painfully young). Rodriguez still had a lot of things working against him roster wise.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
no, with due respect Zach, everything you mentioned lies at the feet of Coach Rodriquez.
How many existing players have transferred or left the program since Coach Hoke was hired?
None about which have heard.
Compare that to Rodriguez. A new Coach’s first responsibility is to ensure existing players stay. Rodriguez failed failed failed at that task. Hoke has kept Robinson in the fold; Rodriguez let Mallett get away without any real effort to keep him in AA. Firing Loeffler (sp?) (QB coach) was the first mis-step in that regard. And, please don’t tell me Mallett was going anyway. Up through the CapOne game, Mallett said publicly to the press he was staying; 10 days later he transferred as Rodriguez put the hard-sell on Pryor. Maybe the same hard-sell would have kept Mallett. But Mallett and his mother were not hard-recruited; they were ignored.
Same with the O-line.
Sorry, it’s a slur and slander against Coach Carr to say he left the cupboard bare.
And, yes, I’ve seen the MGoBlog diary entries (bumped to the front page). Yes, the players left. But THAT. IS. RODRIGUEZ’S. FAULT.
My guess: if Mallett had stayed, the first year is 6-6 with a bowl game, and 2009 is 8-5. Mallett is worth three games a year.
by WarBuck46410 on Feb 6, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Interesting
Interesting in that you are calling out Dave for getting his “Michigan Man”? If this is truly one of you “favorites” then you have to have read at least one of the many pieces written here praising and defending Rodriguez as a coach and as a person.
Not once in the article was anything unfair or untrue said about Rich Rodriguez, but you make it sound as though what was written, was only meant to bad mouth him.
You point out that Mississippi State lost four close game to top 25 teams, and seem angry at they were referenced as perennial doormat in the SEC. True, they did have a good season this year, but they are not a powerhouse, and I am willing to bet that if you look at the players (on both teams) recruiting values, Michigan probably had the “superior” talent, which would seem to indicate that Rodriguez was out coached. I was vehemently in the corner of Rodriguez, and I still think he is a good coach, but the truth was he was not getting the job done in Ann Arbor, for whatever reason, and that means a change was needed.
You criticize signing a kicker, a position of huge need, because he is 2 stars, please, show me a 5 star kicker.
Personally I would rather be 9-3 (or 27-6 after three seasons) than 7-6 or (15-22).
And if you are Blue through and through, why do you seem to want Hoke to fail?
A rebuttal from an optimistic Michigan fan
A) I’d gladly go 9-3 after three seasons totaling 6 wins in the Big 10 in the last THREE years. Detractors hate Lloyd Carr because he won only 78% of his Big 10 games. To make a basketball comparison, the Pistons franchise record 64-win season is a 78% winning percentage. Not shabby.
B) If your expectations are a National Title every year there is literally no program you’d be able to follow that’d fulfill that expectation. I’d understand being in the discussion, or even top-10 AP, but simply, the notion of yearly NCs is a completely unrealistic expectation given the evolving dynamics of college football, increased parity, luck with injuries and good fortune (in hoping other teams lose and in winning out, something only 1-3 teams out of 120 do every year).
C) Winning the Big Ten, and at least competing with MSU and OSU again are definitive wins and not easily accomplished. RR couldn’t even muster that, so what sense does it make to hang on to him if you’re wanting to win bigger and better things (NCs)? The dude struggled to beat inferior teams (Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame all lucky wins this year) let alone being able to compete with great teams.
D) Rich Rod recruited ONE 5-star player according to rivals.com. Give Brady Hoke time, the guy knows how to recruit as evidenced by his successes in such a short window of time this year.
E) NFL players LOVE this guy, is it that hard to be at least cautiously optimistic?
F) That prehistoric defensive coordinator you mentioned masterminded the 3rd best defense (based on points against) in the entire NFL in 2009 and 2010. Not only can this guy coach, but he’ll prove invaluable to future recruiting efforts given his strong NFL ties and track record for success. He’s someone we wouldn’t have without Brady Hoke (and yes, defense still wins championships. Ask Auburn).
G) Speaking of national titles, guess who was on Michigan’s staff the last time they won the NC? Yes, Brady Hoke.
H) Lastly, Brady Hoke has said all the right things, brought the right amount of passion, kept Denard on board, has the support of players, old coaches, NFL players and managed to bring in a good recruiting class despite such a short window. In short, he’s done nothing to show he isn’t capable of handling the position.
I make these points not to say we’ve already succeeded, certainly that will be decided on the field. Rather, I’m annoyed with the entitled, snarky attitude displayed by my fellow Michigan fans and am saddened that so many can’t be excited and supportive of the next chapter in Michigan football, especially after a miserable prior 3. Fact is RR did not just lose games, but he didn’t respect the program and entrenched it in a myriad of issues, drama, litigation and first ever NCAA investigations.
At the very least we now have a guy that is passionate about the program, understands and respects the traditions/rivalries, and will coach with pride and character. Maybe you only care about National Titles, but I care about the Michigan brand, the kids, our legacy, leadership on/off the field, and traditions along with the storied Big 10 matchups. I think signing Hoke is the first step to getting back on that path and hopefully the Ws will follow.
by BradyHokeFTW on Feb 4, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A rebuttal from an optimistic Michigan fan
A) I’d gladly go 9-3 after three seasons totaling 6 wins in the Big 10 in the last THREE years. Detractors hate Lloyd Carr because he won only 78% of his Big 10 games. To make a basketball comparison, the Pistons franchise record 64-win season is a 78% winning percentage. Not shabby.
B) If your expectations are a National Title every year there is literally no program you’d be able to follow that’d fulfill that expectation. I’d understand being in the discussion, or even top-10 AP, but simply, the notion of yearly NCs is a completely unrealistic expectation given the evolving dynamics of college football, increased parity, luck with injuries and good fortune (in hoping other teams lose and in winning out, something only 1-3 teams out of 120 do every year).
C) Winning the Big Ten, and at least competing with MSU and OSU again are definitive wins and not easily accomplished. RR couldn’t even muster that, so what sense does it make to hang on to him if you’re wanting to win bigger and better things (NCs)? The dude struggled to beat inferior teams (Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame all lucky wins this year) let alone being able to compete with great teams.
D) Rich Rod recruited ONE 5-star player according to rivals.com. Give Brady Hoke time, the guy knows how to recruit as evidenced by his successes in such a short window of time this year.
E) NFL players LOVE this guy, is it that hard to be at least cautiously optimistic?
F) That prehistoric defensive coordinator you mentioned masterminded the 3rd best defense (based on points against) in the entire NFL in 2009 and 2010. Not only can this guy coach, but he’ll prove invaluable to future recruiting efforts given his strong NFL ties and track record for success. He’s someone we wouldn’t have without Brady Hoke (and yes, defense still wins championships. Ask Auburn).
G) Speaking of national titles, guess who was on Michigan’s staff the last time they won the NC? Yes, Brady Hoke.
H) Lastly, Brady Hoke has said all the right things, brought the right amount of passion, kept Denard on board, has the support of players, old coaches, NFL players and managed to bring in a good recruiting class despite such a short window. In short, he’s done nothing to show he isn’t capable of handling the position.
I make these points not to say we’ve already succeeded, certainly that will be decided on the field. Rather, I’m annoyed with the entitled, snarky attitude displayed by my fellow Michigan fans and am saddened that so many can’t be excited and supportive of the next chapter in Michigan football, especially after a miserable prior 3. Fact is RR did not just lose games, but he didn’t respect the program and entrenched it in a myriad of issues, drama, litigation and first ever NCAA investigations.
At the very least we now have a guy that is passionate about the program, understands and respects the traditions/rivalries, and will coach with pride and character. Maybe you only care about National Titles, but I care about the Michigan brand, the kids, our legacy, leadership on/off the field, and traditions along with the storied Big 10 matchups. I think signing Hoke is the first step to getting back on that path and hopefully the Ws will follow.
Don't forget coordinators
Whatever recruits we lost out on, the fact that we gained Mattisson was a coup that wouldn’t have happened IMO if Hoke had been hired in December. I just don’t see Mattisson leaving Baltimore while the Ravens were still in the playoff picture, and I definitely do not see Hoke being given any chance to go a month without naming a defensive coordinator. I want The Process critics to name me the recruits we lost out on who collectively are worth more than the Mattisson hire. They can’t.
I admitt to being ready to join the storming of DB’s office demanding his head while this was all going down, but now that I’ve had time to gain more facts and some perspective, and seen how Hoke has performed, I have to agree with you that The Process doesn’t deserve this level of vitriol.
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand, and wrong.
by MosherJordan on Feb 3, 2011 1:47 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
After 3 years Michigan still had a last-place defense. What team is ever going to hire RR as a head coach after he dragged Michigan down so low? Not LSU, that’s for sure. Michigan did not play like a well-coached team for the past three years. That’s on RR.
As for recruiting stars, was Denard Robinson a 5 star? A lot of that stuff is over-rated and just grist for the armchair coaching mill.
As for “back to the future,” yeah, even that is a big improvement from what RR was producing.
Michigan is going to be fine. We’re on the way back. Brandon did the best he could do, which was to fire RR for doing the best he could do. Now it’s time for Hoke to do his best.
Can’t please everybody. Griping is not going to change a thing. Loyalty is tested when times are hard.
Go Blue!
What team is ever going to hire RR as a head coach after he dragged Michigan down so low?
I think Rodriguez will definitely get an HC job somewhere in 2012. Just follow the hot seats.
Tulane is probably going to fire Bob Toledo next fall after 5 straight sub .500 seasons. Rodriguez wanted that job badly back in 1999. Also Mississippi, Clemson and even WVU (insert “prodigal son returns” headline here) are good possibilities. I don’t think RR will be be unemployed for long. Not that anyone really cares anymore at this point.
Go Blue!
Rodriguez will land on his feet.
I don’t think he’s looking at another elite job like a Michigan or an Alabama anytime soon, but a lower level SEC or Big XII team might be willing to take a flyer on him. Hell, Ron Zook got canned from Florida and ended up at Illinois. Turnabout’s fair play. ;)
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 3, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Was Denard a 5 star?
This is a great question. As a spread QB, absolutely. As a pro-style QB, RB or WR, no. This is something that gets repeatedly overlooked about spread guys like RR. They’re called offensive gurus, who’s schematic advantage is why their so good. The reality is, at the college level, you’re good based on how well you recruit talent, and how well you coach that talent. Scheme is valuable only insofar as it allows you to turn 3/4 star talent (Shaun King, Pat White, Denard, Slaton) in a pro-style scheme into 5 star talent.
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand, and wrong.
He was a 4 star ATH recruit
Im not sure if you were ignoring me, dusputing my point, or supporting it, so Ill take it as support.
Right now, Denard Robinson is the national poster child, right next to Cam Newton, of how athletes at the college level can simply dominate no matter what. Michigan did not execute their scheme this year the way that it was drawn up, I hope we can agree. The success of Denard was based on his ability to simply run faster than anyone thought a human being could run. As soon as defenses saw that, and competent DC’s got ahold of a few game tapes, they were able to cut his running out of the game. After Indiana, how many long, breakaway TD runs did he have? When asked to run a passing offense, he rapidly found himself failing pre-snap reads, as evidenced by his tendency to progress through no more than 1 receiver, on the same side of the field he started his read on.
I don’t think he is a bad QB, hell, he was a 1st year starter, and I couldn’t do much of what he does, including figuring out how to put the pads on. However, he is an athlete whose sheer athletic ability means he can dominate, like Vince Young, no matter what. The difference is he is a superior athlete who actually works at getting better, which is horrifying if you aren’t Michigan.
As for RR being an offensive guru…I have to dispute it. His utter inability to run anything that his personnel could actually do is a mark of mediocrity. His inability to actually teach a usable system to the guys he had on hand is another. He is a guy who has designed a really good system for the college game. At this time, or at least at the time he was hired at UM, there was no better scheme at the college level. By his own admission, he thought he could put a winged helmet on a monkey and win 9 games. His inability to do with his own system what so many after him have done, namely tailor it to the abilities of the players on hand, marks him as less than a guru to me.
I was basically agreeing with you
Denard is a tremendous athelete, but he was never going to be given a shot at QB in a pro-style offense. He would have been converted to a WR or RB, and eventually wound up as a Devin Hester type in the NFL.
But, put him in the spread, and he’s suddenly a 5 star recruit. So my point was mostly that I don’t think RR or the spread represents the “future” for college football. Schematic advantage is not what makes it work. What makes it work is that it opens up a whole class of atheletes whos talents were not being optimized in a pro-style offense. Smaller, faster linemen. Smaller faster WR’s. Smaller faster TEs. Smaller faster QBs.
That’s why I don’t think RR was an offensive guru. I think he was simply one of the first on the scene with a scheme that gave him a recruiting advantage. That’s how he got a guy like Shaun King to go to Tulane. That’s how he got Pat White to go to WVU. That’s how he won.
I echo your frustration at how “The Team, The Team, The Team” became, “The Scheme, The Scheme, The Scheme”.
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand, and wrong.
by MosherJordan on Feb 3, 2011 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
At heart, I guess I feel the spread RR had us running always felt like the triple option from Ga Tech. Tough to prepare for once a year on 10 hours practice a few years ago, (when everyone had defenses to stop pro-style offenses), but, given time to prepare, it usually goes badly for them, even with beasts like Josh Nesbitt running it.
Now that everyone (even Michigan) has seen a spread a few times, it feels like it takes either a Cam Newton type, or a slew of terrific athletes with a lot of experience in it like Oregon, to make it really work. It’s no longer the world-beater it used to be, just through proliferation.
Two things
First, regardless of how well or poorly anyone thinks the process was handled, I still see Brady Hoke as an underwhelming hire. Let me clarify before I get crucified by the Hokeamaniacs on the board. There are things to like about Hoke: he loves Michigan, seems to be a passionate recruiter (insert “touching kids” joke here), and his hiring has brought about the first positive month of press this team has seen since ‘06. However, he still has a sub-.500 record for his career, and he doesn’t have a track record of producing great defenses despite being considered a defensive guy (although Mattison should help).
He may still turn out to be a great coach. I’m certainly rooting for him, and I have been happy with some of the steps he has taken so far. However, let’s not anoint the man as savior of Michigan football until we see what he does on the field. It is unfair when you say that people unhappy with “the process” fall into one of two categories and, “If you fall into either, or both, of those categories nothing that Hoke or Brandon does will ever be good enough for you.” That simply isn’t true. You can point out that the man has yet to prove himself worthy of the job without making up your mind that he will never be. If he wins nine games the next two years then routinely competes for a Big Ten championship after that, you can bet that most everyone who was unhappy with his hire will admit that it worked out. Past results don’t necessarily dictate future returns, but Dave Brandon still could have screwed the pooch on the hiring process while lucking into a coach that ends up being successful.
Second, I don’t believe this is a good recruiting class unless you put an asterisk by it. It is merely ok. The team got some depth on defense, and some decent skill position players (and what looks like a good kicker, but Gibbons was highly rated too, so I’ll reserve judgment). However, Hoke missed out on getting any elite targets and he wasn’t able to address two very pressing needs (DT, OT).
Positives: Hoke kept Countess on board, he got us Barnet, Mattison helped get us Poole, and we got in the door with Cooper, Willingham—both of whom were long shots after the new staff came.
Negatives: We still lost out on arguably our four top commits (Hart, Frost—had his mind made up according to TomVH, Fisher, and Crawford) and did not replace any of them with recruits of equal value. He couldn’t close on two top priority recruits in the last week (Cooper and Fisher), and he lost what seemed like a solid verbal to UCF.
Hoke did a good job keeping together the bulk of the class and not turning away most of the players who were going to come here regardless (Bryant, Taylor, Rawls, Lucie…oh wait, nevermind). We shouldn’t hold this class against him. Hoke and his staff had very little time to do salvage the class (whether you like it or not, that is because of the process), but salvage it they did. We got numbers and we got depth. It is a solid class, but probably nothing more in the long run. If we want to be an elite team again, classes like this won’t do it.
In the end I am still not happy with the process, but I’m all in for Brady Hoke now that he is the coach. I will fully support the man and only make up my mind on his recruiting prowess and coaching ability after he has ample time to prove his ability at both. That doesn’t mean I’m not still skeptical that he can handle the job.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
Cosign
I pretty much agree with what you’ve said here. Especially, the two points concerning whether Hoke can coach and the quality of the recruiting class.
I remember when ND had the hiring disaster with O’Leary and turned around and grabbed Willingham. I remember thinking that ND lucked into the “right choice” for head coach. That prediction didn’t turn out so great, and for that matter, neither did my excitement at the Rodriguez hire. Nobody can proclaim Hoke was the “right choice” until after he proves he can win, which ultimately won’t be for another three or four years. The talent is there to be successful the next couple year, and anything less than 8 wins each season would be a disaster. We’ll see what kind of a coach he is when we’re either competing for Big 10 titles in years 3 and 4 or we’re not.
On the recruiting class, I too am confused on how this is thought to be a good class. Yes rivals ranked our class in the top 25 (the only service to do so), but there’s a huge difference between classes ranked in the top 15 and those below. People seem to be arguing that we “addressed needs,” but again, I’m not sure how true that is. It seems that because we loaded up on players in the back 7 on defense, an area we were horrible in, we’ve addressed needs. This isn’t necessarily true. Part of the reason we were horrible, at least in the secondary is because we were so insanely young. That’s not going to be solved by adding 5 secondary recruits of roughly the same recruiting credentials as the soon to be sophomores. Maybe Countess counts as “addressing a need,” but if none of the recruits actually contribute, we’re going to end up with 13 players over 2-3 classes, depending on how many incoming players red-shirt, without changing the success of our secondary.
In recruiting, addressing needs means that unless there’s a stud that’s going to come in and immediately replace a starter, which generally doesn’t happen, you are filling in holes on the roster in the previous couple of classes. In my mind, we only did that at DE, TE, and QB with only Breyer and maybe Barnett likely to see any action this season. We left glaring holes on the offensive line, where we only have 5 underclassmen, and at DT, with three underclassmen. It’s pretty ironic that these remain positions of need for a coach that professes to building a team from the middle out.
I hope Hoke turns out to be a great coach and that Brandon’s “process” doesn’t blight the program. But at this point, there has been nothing shown to change my opinion that the process was a disaster.
Another well written post
This is fast becoming my favorite board.
Im glad to hear someone else echoing my feelings. I was not a Hoke guy until he was announced, and I went and did some research. Then I heard him talk. He’s OUR GUY. Right or wrong, he is exactly what I wanted when we got (and got rid of) Rich Rod. I honestly am not convinced he’ll lead us to National Titles. However, much to the bafflement of my Texas and Alabama fan friends, I don’t care. i want big ten titles, and I want rose bowl wins. Sure, id love to go on a UConn women streak and win 100 in a row, but it’s not what I root for.
After the warm fuzzy of the recruiting glow wore off, I too feel we really didn’t advance the program this year. It feels more like averting disaster than really improving. Now, I feel Brady Hoke really worked miracles, and the only guys he didn’t get were either real surprises like Willingham, or guys who went to top end programs. That just happens. I guess adequate best describes the way I feel this turned out, and I blame Dave Brandon for that.
I think Brady Hoke did the very best he could do, and it was wildly better than we had a right to hope for. I think Harbaugh was unavailble, Miles was undesirable, and Hoke was a guy who came with the best of references, and a hair-on-fire DESIRE to do this job.
I'm in the camp that says
I don’t care about the “process” or the coaching change. It’s been 3 freaking years. Just show me the results.
The results will be better in 2011, but it will have a lot more to do with 20+ returning starters, improvements on a ridiculous streak of bad luck in turnover margin, and whatever nanometric improvements occure because a guy named GERG isn’t rubbing beavers in the faces of linebackers anymore. Hoke is 47-50 as a head coach. I support him. I think he can succeed. But skepticism is not completely deleted from my programming.
Judgement day for Hoke and staff will be the Notre Dame game in Ann Arbor next fall because I think it will be indicative of how Michigan’s season will unfold.
My question is: Why are we suddenly exiting the car of “no excuses” that we’ve all been buckled into the last 3 years with Carr-loyalists and the crack team of Free Press reporters?
We’re quoting Rivals 21st ranking over Scout’s 27th ranking for a reason, aren’t we?
Would Rodriguez have gotten such a break? No freaking way. This is by far the worst recruiting class by comparison for Michigan in a generation.
I’m looking at Scout.com’s rankings (those are the ones I have been following). They’re not very generous. To anybody. Michigan finished 27th in the country according to Scout.com – the worst finish fpr UM ever since classes have been nationally ranked by the service (2002).
In the Big Ten, Michigan’s recruiting classes have been in the top 3 in the league EVERY YEAR since 2002, including the 1st coaching change under RR in 2008 (finishing 2nd to OSU). This year Nebraska and Iowa shoved both Penn State and Michigan aside. Michigan finished 4th in the league.
I’m not saying it’s the end of the world. What I am saying is that , first, recruiting rankings do matter and a lower-than-average class will have consequences further down the road. Secondly, the pressure to develop all of these 3 star players and find uses for all of the 3- and 4-star slots is going to be very high.
It’s a lot easier to start off with 5 and 4 star players to win league championships. Just ask Ohio State, who has landed 3 top classes in the Big Ten the last 5 years. The Big Ten championships OSU has either won or tied are not coincidences.
Go Blue!
brady hoke did hell of a job geting the players he got this year and they will be more great players to come in next year class for thier our alt of dt and ot coming out highschool next year and a lot of them will be coming out midwest so haveing um coach who know howto get players out of the midwest is important . also he will get afew players out of texas and cal and his coaching staff still has great ties to fla witch name players from fla will help the m get the players they need to fix this foot ballteam and start wining the big ten .
A well-written article, but it falls apart right at the very beginning. As soon as you generically brand EVERY michigan fan who thinks DB handled this poorly into those 2 categories, your argument falls down.
You cannot deny that DB waiting as long as he did negatively affected recruiting. The uncertainty doesn’t manifest inself only in pure decommits. Every single coach and trainer attatched to that program was cruelly left hanging. They have bills and families, and many of them are now finding themselves scrambling for a job, since the AD decided to delay making the decision until AFTER the time when most of those people are traditionally hired. That cannot help but affect productivity. Add in the cumulative effect on players who don’t know if their scholarships would even be renewed (those are only 1 year deals, guys), and you see there are a heck of a lot of issues rolling down from the AD’s decision.
Additionally, the biggest thing I saw people screaming about was WHY WAS THERE NO PLAN? How do you find yourself in a position of even considering replacing your head coach, and don’t have a plan in place? It wasn’t a surprise that this could come up, especially if your (weak) premise is correct, that he didn’t intend to fire RR, but 1 bad bowl game forced his hand. If one game swings the decision, the decision is really already made. Therefore, the replacement should have been lined up from the moment the decision to fire was made, and in place prior to the announcement. You know, the way all the OTHER competent AD’s in the country do it. That way, they don’t cripple the incoming staff. The fact the Brady Hoke was able to make the best of a bad hand by grabbing up Coach Mattison (hope you heal up fast coach, we need you!) doesn’t mitigate DB’s mistake in waiting so long. In short it speaks to BH’s credit, not the AD’s.
Addressing Brady Hoke’s final result, Im a bit discouraged that we didn’t get all the guys we targetted, but then, we also don’t know why. The reasons likely vary, (IMO) from the fact that Fisher wanted to move away from home, and the DB we targetted, I think Raven, is in such a dysfunctional situation that, 5 stars or not, his mother is forging his name on a LOI and sending it to a school he didn’t choose. We didn’t want that. Losing a recruit to Iowa and oregon is no shame, you don’t get everyone you go after.
Scout and ESPNU are both known for affecting a recruits rankings heavily based on who recruits them as much as the athlete in himself. ESPN, especially has a portion of their 45-100 ranking system dedicated to who recruits them. To my mind, that makes them a less reliable grader of sheer talent, and biased towards schools they feel are the best judges of talent.
Michigan should do well, on the sheer basis of a weaker schedule, massive attrition in the toughest opponents, and 20 returning starters alone. Add in what I feel confident will be better coaching, and I think this will be at least as good a year, record wise as last year was, which is only a realistic expectation after a complete system change, and was something RR couldn’t deliver.
The next season, however, that opens with opponents like Air Force, Alabama, and Notre Dame (who recruited an absolutely BEASTLY d line this year) will be where I look for UM to show it is back. Not necessarily with wins, but competitive play. I will be hoping for wins, but I think we need to temper our expectations a bit.
A well reasoned response
I think you are right to criticize me for my overt generalization. I missed the boat on that. I also agree with you that there were a lot of other people’s careers and jobs at stake other than just Rodriguez’ that come into play, and those people’s lives merit consideration.
Where I think we’ll have to agree to disagree is here:
If one game swings the decision, the decision is really already made. Therefore, the replacement should have been lined up from the moment the decision to fire was made, and in place prior to the announcement.
I don’t think that’s the case. You can’t tell a highly touted coach, for instance Harbaugh, that “this job is yours if the guy there screws up, but isn’t if he doesn’t.” That’s a way to further undermine your program in the event that word of your deal gets out. What if the next season, had rodriguez been retained, word of a deal like that got out? It would tear Michigan apart with innuendo, patchy stories, and infighting all around the program and fan base. I can’t agree with your premise there.
I legitimately think Rodriguez was safe until Michigan was embarrassed on New Years. No one predicted the humiliating loss they suffered. It’s one thing to get trampled by two BCS teams (even if one is your rival, wait, no, that not acceptable either), but it’s another to be absolutely stomped by a mediocre team when you’ve got over a month to prepare.
Rodriguez had done everything alright to keep his job. The one thing he couldn’t do was get trampled in his bowl. No one expected that. No one. Did anyone walk in to that game and say this will be a poorly coached, horrific blood bath for the wolverines? No. That was the “break in case of emergency” moment that no one expected. And when it happened, I think there was a legitimate reason to fire Rodriguez. If you can’t get a team ready to play in a month, how can we expect him to do that in the future? No. Brandon wasn’t expect that. No one was. That’s why he was quote unquote “caught with his pants down” in the firing and hiring of the coach.
That’s why Michigan “waited” until January to fire him. Because he wasn’t going to be fired until his team was embarrassed on New Years.
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 3, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
1st off, Im taken aback and delighted to come across someone as civil as you on these types of boards. You have my respect.
We will have to disagree, I guess. dave Brandon has said that his previous job experience has led him to constantly have a list of people to account for attrition. As a leader of a restaurant, I know I had to have one, and what he ran was much bigger. It’s not as though RR up and left on his own, Mr Brandon HAD to have known it was a distinct possibility, and should have had that hammer ready to break the glass with.
I am willing to credit him with talking to Harbaugh (‘s people), and seeing that was barking up the wrong tree, and I feel the comment at pressers referring to people who aren’t as appealing in person as they seem from a distance to apply to Miles. In fact, the more I learn about the LSU program, the more the only thing I like is the helmets. I don’t think we want that sort of program here. I think LSU, Auburn, and Bama are on the road to some ramifications from the NCAA. I don’t think oversigning is their only issue down there. Though I do firmly beleive it is either tantamount to cheating, or the Big Ten has competitively tied its hand behind its back in not allowing it.
I feel a guy like Brandon ought to have a plan ready to implement, as opposed to starting a search AFTER the firing was done.
That's Dave for you.
Civility…
Go Maize, Blue, and Gray!
by Remember Bo on Feb 3, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point about the 2012 schedule
That year Michigan’s defense will be tested early with Notre Dame’s spread option on the road, Alabama’s multiple pro and pistol (on the road), and then Air Force’s “flexbone”. Thank God Hoke brought in a high-caliber guy like Mattison, because the prep work will be demanding to say the least.
I’m really interested to see how Michigan’s defense plays it’s new “physical style” against Notre Dame’s spread offense even as early as next fall. If there’s one team that goes into next season with a lot of positive momentum (winning seven of last nine and a nice recruiting finish), it’s Notre Dame.
Go Blue!
Concerned
The only team Im really worried about going forward, or at least, would trade recruiting classes with, it’s ND. I agree with Hoke, the game HAS to start on the lines, and build outward. Joe Montana can’t throw touchdowns with people sacking him every other drop back, and even Barry Sanders needed holes to run through, so you have to have OL. But if I have to choose, I feel a D line like notre dame’s should shake out to be (yes I know stars aren’t everything, but they are an indicator) with 3 five star recruits is going to be devastating, so Id go that way. I feel most of the success we had in 97 came from a dline that got pressure without blitzing, allowing Woodson to do crazy things and take risks, because he could always count on help.
Notre Dame is my pick to be a team on the rise, just ahead of that wicked Seminole class, who somehow got better after Bowden. If UM can be mentioned with their names in the next few years, I think we will all be very happy.
My problem with the process...
…was that Brandon appeared like he was about to begin compiling his list the day he announced Rodriguez’s firing. It is clear that he was hoping for the team to come out and have a great win in the bowl game, giving Rodriguez another year, a chance to fix the defense and maybe even win the Big Ten. His hand was forced after that bowl game.
But it looked like he hadn’t prepared for that contingency plan. Again, this is just based off of his press conference at the time. He was likely banking on Harbaugh, and that simply didn’t work out.
I concede that there is a chance that he was just playing a bit of cat-and-mouse with the media and had a lot more in place than he let on, but he seemed uncharacteristically nervous during that press conference, so it made me all the more worried.
I live in Argentina. There is a merited reputation for things not running smoothly here. But the Argentines think that Americans have trouble adapting when things don’t go according to plan. I remain a bit suspect that Brandon was caught unprepared when Plan A (beat MSU – yays all around) and Plan B (Coach Harbaugh) didn’t avail themselves as anticipated.
Hey Reed
Check out the blog in the coming days. We could use your help with something.
Go Maize, Blue, and Gray!
Haven't finished reading yet, but...
0-6 against Michigan’s biggest rivals in games that were less competitive each year Michigan played them.
Can we stop saying this? I grew up thinking ND is a bigger rival than MSU, I still do. When ND and MSU play, I root for MSU. At the very least, you have to included ND and say Rodriguez was 2-7 against our biggest rivals.
Wow that changes everything
because you think ND is a bigger rival than MSU, we all should I guess. Also 2-7, does it make you feel that much better than 0-6?
I think a very important statement was made by a poster above, about a different coach, but it makes a lot of sense. Past performance does not guarantee future results. We use this statement often in the financial business and it applies perfectly to RichRod. I liked him and thought there was a chance he could still do great things at UM, but it seems that so many are using his past coaching job to say, he would have been successful at UM if he was given time, as if its fact. The truth is we have no idea if he would have turned things around, there is no proof of that, and in fact at times the team did look worse as the season went along. I am taking the same position w/ Hoke, its hard to call it a great/bad hire until we see how the team performs.
I just wish RR apologists would take the same approach in being fair w/ Hoke. They are upset about how he was treated from the very outset of his hire (rightfully so), so why not do the same w/ Hoke and not tear him down from the beginning. Lets give him the fair shake RR didn’t get.
"Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant, and she fell on me. Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny."
Jack Handy quote
Dude, relax...
Where did I say anywhere that 2-7 vs. 0-6 changes anything? I’m just annoyed that people trot out the 0-6 stat that promotes MSU to “second rival” status, when in my mind, I hate ND waaaaaay more. I remember being in Michigan Stadium one year when the final of a MSU victory over ND was announced and there was a huge cheer. So it seems there are at least a good number of people that agree with me.
While I do think Rodriguez was on the cusp of a great season, but only with a new defensive staff, I understand why his job became untenable. I hope Hoke is successful and I’ll be behind him for at least 4 seasons. I don’t see anything in my post(s) that would lead your contradictory conclusion. Maybe you should stop being so sensitive about any statement you deem as defensive about Rodriguez.
For a very very long time, i felt like you. I remember when UM v ND was the first game of the year, and it could decide who was bound for the #1 spot, when the AP poll mattered. I remember Rocket Ismail gutting us that year, and I still can call up the shocked feeling I felt when Grbac threw deep on 4th down to Howard. Not that he caught it, but that Bo would call such a play. After George Perles, we beat MSU so regularly I didn’t get any kind of rivalry feeling from them, except that my sisters rooted for the spartans. They were the same to me as Iowa, or even Illinois when they were decent with Jeff George. Respectable, but not worthy of hate. Notre Dame, on the other hand, now there was some hate.
I guess it’s kind of relative to the times. Weve pulled a few out over ND the last few years, even pasted them a good one not too far back, when Crable planted Clausen so hard he carried a big piece of turf away in his face mask. Little Brother, on the other hand, has mauled us a few times, and have been chirping about it, too. That’s fresh in a lot of people’s minds.
um, no. sorry to be on my soapbox, but Rodriguez was treated just fine by the press at the beginning and at the beginning of each season.
They are upset about how he was treated from the very outset of his hire (rightfully so) …
No, not “rightfully so”.
Rodriguez got plenty of love from the press and from Coach Carr at the beginning. His bad press was self-inflicted. There was no ‘witch hunt’ and he was not treated “badly.” As a coach, if you lose, you get bad press. Those are the rules.
But check the actual press “clippings.” At the beginning of each season, lots of love from the press. Remember Forcier getting the November Heisman; same with DRob. Remember the great press after the “great” game in 2010 vs. Illinois? (So many points!!)
The bad press started each year after the losses started.
That’s the way it works. You lose, you get bad press. That is not a witch hunt; that is what being a CFB coach IS.
by WarBuck46410 on Feb 6, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
A D Brandon
Congratulations on an excellent article. I couldn’t agree more!!!!
I think we have two outstanding individuals to lead this team back to
where we all want it to be.
Let’s quit “bitchin” about the past and get behind the “Michigan Team”
GO BLUE!!!!!!!
I disagree
With all due respect, I simply disagree with Dave’s argument. 21st in Rivals while being in the high 20’s in the other sites should not excite any Michigan fan with a minutely historical understanding of Michigan’s usual recruiting position. I’m not bashing any of the guys we got, and I’m fully supporting them and the new program. But it’s foolish and ignorant to believe that this was a good recruiting outcome. Considering the circumstances, Brady and his staff did a good job. But what were those circumstances? A mere two weeks to fill out a class with his style of players. Brandon and Brandon alone is the only one to blame for this. Now I’m not going around and bashing this recruiting class or the new program, but this class is what it is. While transitions are never ideal, two months for the new coach makes a HUGE difference compared to two weeks.
Brandon has stated that he thought RichRod deserved to finish the season, but RichRod himself stated that it would have been better for everyone involved, including himself, if the firing occurred in early December.
While I have no patience for perennial Michigan bashers who call themselves fans (like what we saw much of over the past few years), my feelings aren’t much different for those who are unwilling to call a spade a spade and admit that the people in the program (in this case the AD) occasionally make mistakes or poor decisions.
OK, but...
exactly how domes making a big deal out of it help anything? What does your criticism put into motion and will it be a positive factor for the program?
Great job Dave
I have decided to fall in line behind Hoke and Brandon. I am going to support the team and hope everything turns out very well. In the end it all comes down the the very clear fact that complaining at this point is not productive.
I am going to just say this and get it out there because it needs to be said…
If you are pushing a negative spin on “The Process” or the Brady Hoke hire, you really cannot be much of a Michigan fan. We have just been through a debacle where RichRod was submarined by all the negativism among the alumni, media, and fans. I firmly believe that RichRod could have been much more successful at the U-M if people would have spent more time supporting the team and less time complaining. What happened to him was damn near a witch hunt.
The plain fact is that too many people make too many assumptions.
Too many people think they know what it takes to be a great coach or athletic director when they have never done the job for even a day. They criticize from the cheap seats because they can without any regard for the consequences.
Too many people think they know what would have happened with recruiting had RichRod stayed, or Hoke been hired earlier. But we see dozens of surprises in every recruiting class. It is inherently unpredictable from the fans viewpoint. You just cannot really know.
The real truth of the matter is that people need to get down from their high horse and think they are smarter than the people doing the job. If you don’t like the way that Brandon handled the recruiting process then fine, you have that right. But using conjecture to criticize him is not valid. The criticism of the process will only be valid if Hoke turns to be the wrong guy, and we have years before that determination can be made.
So people need to examine their motives in this debate. If you are really a Michigan fan, then this is the time you need to stop stirring the pot and let events take their course. Pushing a negative message is not helpful. So if you are doing it then you are either putting your own ego ahead of the welfare of the program, or you want to create problems because you are really not a Michigan fan anyway.
Words have consequences. I think the Michigan faithful need to understand that they are their own worst enemy at this moment in time.
I agree with your sentiment. However, BECAUSE we are fans, we do get to come here and voice our opinions. If you bought a piece of cloth with a Blue M on it, you get a voice. If you yell “Touchdown, MICHIGAN!” as loud as you can, regardless of what state you are actually in, you get a voice here.
As fans, we invest ourselves in our program. We invest dollars, emotions, and time in our lives that we don’t ever get back. That’s why we’re here, reading and posting on some forum in da interwebz. I do not for a moment think that Mr. Brandon read or cares about any of the well thought out and rationally stated points Ive made (well, the one, the others weren’t always so rational). However, My family has moved from state to state with me, following work, and one constant has been hearing dad yelling every saturday in his best Keith Jackson imitation.
I support the hiring of Coach Hoke, more than I thought RR was the wrong choice. Hearing Coach Hoke, I cannot help but beleive that we can see the success of the 90s again. Im happy with that. I dont want to be USC. I want to be Michigan. Every day, I play a youtube video of the “Team” speech by Bo (it’s got a really good video, with nice, motivational music in the background), because Bo’s voice reminds me of time I spent with my father, watching Michigan, while he pointed out how the game worked, and things I could use when I had my next game or practice.
My kids will grow up with it. They will be fans, if they so choose. And later, they will have a voice in places like this. they will get to voice their displeasure at someone’s decisions, and i will teach them to use all the available information to make their decisions, and be suspicious of someone who is holding back information. Dave Brandon did just that, and i was suspicious. Then, he explained himself, giving more information, and in the end, he got the right guy. Mission Accomplished.
I agree, you get a voice.
What disturbs me is whether the fans realize that their rant may be self-defeating. In the age of the Internet people have more power than they ever have. The rumble of discontent from a few can easily turn into a wave if Michigan falters out of the gate next season. Our voice will become the death knell for the program if we are too strident in our criticism. No matter what Dave Brandon or Brady Hoke does, there will always be detractors. So we must be careful to keep the criticism marginalized until there are actual results on the field to judge.
Im curious then, do you think what we say here, or more specifically, what was said a few years ago, had an effect on the RR employment?
I find that for myself, I can only watch youtube videos of the 97 defense and Bo’s “The Team” so much before I need a fix. I am stuck in a miserable town in Iowa with no sports fans to talk to, this is what I have to trade opinions with other poeple.
I wasn’t into these sorts of things when RR came on, I had a group of friends who I debated endlessly with. One was my boss, and hes a Texas fan. I tell you, that was an awful Jan 2nd to come in to work. Was what they said then worse than what we see here? I feel we really aren’t being too harsh, honestly. The article defends the AD, I don’t see anyone here expressing worse opinions than one stating they are unconvinced by his resume that he’ll take us to national championships. That’s entirely reasonable, I would think.
And TuffLynx, I swear Ive seen that name on other forums I frequent, just can’t place it.
F'n great man
I’d rec this word for word if i could
"I'll go home and hug the wife and kids, and you know...watch someone else have misery tonight on TV." - Rich Rodriguez
There was no "witch hunt" against Rodriguez
I did the research.
Coach Rodriguez got the same good press that Coach Hoke is getting; the bad press was entirely self-inflicted.
I would even say that the bad feelings by the “old guard” were self-inflicted by Rodriguez’s decision – on day three after his hire and 11 days before the CapOne Bowl – to fire all of Carr’s staff.
If “fired all of Carr’s staff” was the start of the bad feelings, then it truly was a witch hunt. Coaches almost always start over when they are hired, especially from the outside.
I just read your post, and it seems that much of your “bad decisions” were mostly things outside his control. WVU acted like a scorned ex-girlfriend, spreading baseless stories (“the shredding incident”) and generally just not moving on with their lives. Rodriguez couldn’t control this. Rodriguez challenged the buyout at the Athletic Department’s request! How is this his fault? He lost a couple players who transferred out of the new system. Generally this is to be expected (by the way, where was Boren’s invitation to the combine?).
Yes, the initial reports about Rodriguez were positive, they had to be, this was a guy being sought by Alabama just a year or two before. But the way the local media turned and reported attack stories (the shredding incident, the lawsuit, etc.) without any hint of subtlety demonstrates that a good portion simply didn’t care for him. This isn’t revisionist history, all these points were made the moment reports started attacking Rodriguez.
Alas, if he had one, none of this would have mattered.
by LandonC on Feb 4, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What else would you expect W.Vir to do?
Sorry, but 100% disagree that the bad press re: W.Vir. was “mostly things outside his control.” From the get-go, Rodriguez decided to disrespect his previous employer. Every single bad press article and event related thereto are Rodriguez’s fault and self-inflicted. The decision to publicly call your former boss a liar will buy yourself a jihad.
Hmm…. I apologize, but where did you read (maybe I missed it in one of my linked articles)… but where did you read that Michigan asked Rodriguez to challenge the buyout? If so, then Sailboat Billy really really f-ed up his job.
(and, LOL re: Boren. not relevant and a personal attack on him, but FWIW, I think he did finally get an invite….)
and, in the end, you said it right: If he had won (grin), none of it would have mattered.
Thus, me being on this soapbox. the fact that he did NOT win has led everyone to make excuses about a “witch hunt.” In other words, the apologists are saying: “witch hunt!!” but in truth, he got fired for not winning enough.
Everyone needs to stop making excuses.
by WarBuck46410 on Feb 6, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Brilliant. MgoSnark Needs to Be Answered.
I have left the site. It has lost it’s soul. I did so public ally, saying:
So Long and Thanks for All the Fish
A short note to say thank you to all of you as I leave this site for good. I can honestly say that I have enjoyed some of the best moments on the Internet right here where the quality of discourse and the intelligence of all the material is second to none. But the snarky classlessness of this site in general and Brian in particular as it relates to Brady Hoke has asphyxiated the joy that used to accompany my daily visits here.
The thought of years of adolescent digs at a man who is the epitome of everything we have declared is special about Michigan just because his resume isn’t up to incredibly uninformed standards chills me. When I can look on the front page of a site renowned for its cerebral excellence and see an Internet tantrum taking form as "Hoke-y bits" and "healing old wounds iz gud" and "footbaw" – that is if I can get past that moronic banner and its awesome wit "We can has Hoke?" and "SRSLY?!" - it’s time to look elsewhere.
From 30,000 feet, Brady Hoke is ten times the man of any author on this site and his unapologetic love for this university fortunately is unaffected by the sniggers of non-athletes with electronic pens who sleep in until 11:00am every day.
Have I always wanted Brady Hoke as our coach? No, of course not. I didn’t know a thing about him. By the tsunami of material about our new coach has me electric with enthusiasm, and I will be damned if I am going to rain on my own parade by clicking on a link that has lost its Michigan soul.
by Meeechigan Dan on Feb 4, 2011 10:33 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Good to know that you’re the arbiter of whether one retains a Michigan soul.
If you decided to not use what is probably the single best source of information on Michigan football after some admittedly adolescent banter in the time-frame immediately surrounding the coaching hire, it’s your loss.
by LandonC on Feb 4, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well said, Dan. Everyone should "rec" this. Seriously.
Tantrum is the only correct word to describe Brian Cook’s reaction to the hiring of Coach Hoke.
by WarBuck46410 on Feb 6, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
To paraphrase the Supreme Court – I can’t define a lost Michigan soul, but I know one when I see one.
He is not the best source for Michigan football. He was a great writer with an engaging style who produced some novel analysis. All this has vanished under a petulance that makes his reporting on football unreadable. Like our political parties, IMO part of him is relishing the “I told you so” day Hoke fails. Again, IMO.
Touch the Banner has better recruit analysis, Rivals has better data, other places have better humor. He’s squandering years of credibility. His loss, not mine.
Yeah
I’ll probably go back to the site for postgame notes (I like the picture pages), but I hear ya about the snarkyness. It’s been too much. I’ve been waiting for it to pass, but it continues. I used to go to Mgo every day, but I’m taking a break, at least until football season.
If I wanted to read someone spitting poison at my alma mater, I would go to a buckeyes blog.
A lifelong Tigers fan
Effect of the Gator Bowl loss
There’s been lots of arguing about the bowl loss and its effect on the timing of RR getting fired. Usually folks are saying “DB HAD to know he was gonna fire RR before the bowl game because it would be ridiculous to fire him based on one game, so why not just DO IT already after the OSU game??”
My take is this: I can imagine that when a head coach is on the hot seat, there comes a point when the AD starts thinking about the breaking point. If we lose [insert game(s) here] then I have to fire him. Obviously, I can’t say if DB was thinking this exact thing about the Gator Bowl…. but it would certainly explain why he waited. He wanted to give RR one last chance as well as collect one last, crucial piece of data to help make his decision.
The Gator Bowl was not, singularly, the reason RR was fired. It was, however, the straw that broke the camel’s back. I think, for example, if we’d beaten OSU, but had the same blowout loss in a bowl game, RR keeps his job…. BUT, the breaking point is now different… maybe in the form of the next loss to a rival. Lose to MSU (again) in 2011, done.
Personally for me, that breaking point was going to PSU after 2 weeks to prepare and being eaten alive by a backup walk-on QB and Evan Royster, whom the D-staff seemed to have forgotten existed. But that’s just me (although I think I have some company).
For David Brandon, the Gator Bowl was “that” game. Not the sole reason, but the deal-breaker. As frustrating as “the process” was, I really can’t fault him for that one part of it.
This all reads like a lack of comprehension of Brian's position
But hey, it’s a rant and those feel good and Brian’s an obvious target for a would-be Michigan blogger, so fire away. Can’t say I’ve never been there.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
If you're coming
If you’re coming here and think that this is a designed post to stir the pot at Mgoblog in the hops of increasing our blog-cred, then I think you’ve got a lack of comprehension on Dave’s position…
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-H.L. Mencken
http://maizenbrew.com
I love...
I love that you can’t edit posts on SBN…sigh…
should read:
If you’re reading the post and think that it’s designed to stir the pot at Mgoblog in the hopes of increasing our blog-cred, then I think you’ve got a lack of comprehension on Dave’s position…
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-H.L. Mencken
http://maizenbrew.com
i don't.
for one, it’s not a great post. content is king. two, “would-be” is kind of a low blow, but i was noting that it’s easy to get frustrated with brian. like i said, i’ve been there. it’s much harder to criticize his actual point than it is a caricature of his posts, even if you feel certain something is awry.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
Fair enough
“it’s much harder to criticize his actual point than it is a caricature of his posts, even if you feel certain something is awry.”
Cosigned.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-H.L. Mencken
http://maizenbrew.com
If this is a misconprehension of Brian's position...
then Brian needs to work on his communication skills. The guy has been ranting about “The Process” for some time from what I can see. I feel that he would be better advised to admit he was wrong and move on. Instead he seems determined to spin everything he can into a negative. At some point you get tired of the negatives and just decide to ignore him.
We go to these blogs because we are Michigan fans. When I read some of this stuff that is posted at Mgoblog it is like listening to somebody call my mother a slut. I get angry sometimes. I do not read these blogs to hear somebody maligning the program and the people running it just because they want to push hits on their site, and that is what I think Brian is doing. He has learned that arguments get a lot of posts.
I think Brian has just been very honest about his feelings. He believes that Dave Brandon mishandled the process, and frankly there is a decent amount of evidence to point to him being correct. When he complains that Brady Hoke is an underwhelming hire, he is doing it not out of some spiteful hatred of the man, but rather looking at the facts (Hoke’s record at previous schools, Hokes age, other possible candidate) and making a value judgment on the hire. When it comes to the way the process was handled, I agree with him almost completely.
Now, that doesn’t me myself or Brian are actively rooting for Hoke to fail. I haven’t even noticed a hint of that in his posts. Furthermore, he has been positive when it was warranted: the hiring of Mattison, the hiring of the DL coach, and most recently he was positive about the hiring of Mallory.
You say it is time for Brian to admit he was wrong and move on, but isn’t that just as presumptuous when you claim to be right? We don’t know if it was the right hire. All the positive press, talk of toughness and defense, and great assistant coaches won’t matter if this team doesn’t win.
If they win, Brian, myself, and the rest of the skeptics will fall in line and admit that Hoke was a good hire. However, I won’t admit that the process was handled correctly. You can still screw us and luck into a good situation, which is what I think Brandon did.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
Of all the criticisms of Brian Cook’s editorial approach to the Hoke hire, this:
I do not read these blogs to hear somebody maligning the program and the people running it just because they want to push hits on their site, and that is what I think Brian is doing. He has learned that arguments get a lot of posts.
…if you know anything about Brian, is just plain ludicrous.
Getting upset over a sporting event seems kind of ridiculous, until you remember that the people who get upset over sports have a remarkable ability to not get upset over the position of the toilet seat, the state of the bed, or the current location of a pair of underwear.
no kidding
especially since the suggestion is that the poster in question will READ MGOBLOG LESS.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
that's on you and your emotions.
Brian hasn’t changed his approach in the 6 years he’s been running this thing. that approach, in short: facts or GTFO. he’s not going to lament your inability to understand him when he’s been clear. he’s certainly not going to admit to being wrong when the facts suggest the opposite. aside from his inexhaustible output, that’s what makes him good.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
great job maize and brew!!!
i agree 100%!!!
by Shane Shawn Ward on Feb 4, 2011 2:13 PM CST reply actions
Fantastic.
100% agree.
Two particular points:
1. For all the hubbub about a Michigan Man I don’t think it was an absolute requirement that we found a long-time Maize-and-Bluer. But there are certain desires amongst the fanbase that RR never met (and others never would) that Brandon was certainly aware of. Could someone who hadn’t been affiliated with the program previously have filled those with time? Yes. But with Hoke we got that immediately, which was a bonus to— not a requirement for— him being chosen.
2. I think those (in no reference to any particular poster above) who saw Hoke’s intro as head coach, see the turnaround of his recent programs, but want to decry the earlier part of his career and say it proves his lack of qualification— are just justifying their discontent. We have a head coach who has overseen two recent, significant turnarounds as a head coach and absolutely loves Michigan. Absolutely. Loves. Michigan. I really believe that he— if his wife and daughter may not be similarly afflicted— really would have walked to Michigan if that’s what it took to coach here. That it seems some would rather watch Brady go down in flames to get a coach who might win 1-2 games more a year but not care about Michigan or his student-athletes as much is saddening.
As a 20-year Michigan fan I want not just to win but to win in a way that is a tribute to the character and honor of the university, the student-athletes, and, yes, the fanbase. If you were to start your evaluation of him at the beginning of Brady’s tenure I don’t know how you could think there’s anything he, too, wants more. I think all of us— myself included— who have been naysayers should heed the call to support this great program we’re lucky to be fans of.
“That it seems some would rather watch Brady go down in flames to get a coach who might win 1-2 games more a year but not care about Michigan or his student-athletes as much is saddening.”
1. I don’t think anyone has wished failure on Brady Hoke. I’m not impressed with the hire, but I’m certainly not going to root against him. All we have is his past performance, and it looks mediocre at best. This doesn’t mean he is doomed to fail, but its just like a 3 star kid vs. a 5 star kid. The odds the 5 star kid is All-American are much better.
2. I don’t know if this is a backhanded shot at Rodriguez (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it isn’t) but to make the assumption that he or some other coach won’t feel passionately for the university and care deeply about his student athletes is foolish—and when framed in light of all this Michigan man garbage, a bit xenophobic.
I want this team to win games and I want them to do it the right way. I don’t want Kiffin-esque violations, Saban-esque medical hardship scholarships, or Miles-esque 35 men classes. However, I won’t sit around and say that finding a coach who loves Michigan is even in the top ten of my head coach wishlist. This is still a job and if the fan base, athletic department, and media keep stressing the need to be led by someone who “loves and understands Michigan” (whatever in the hell that means) this program is going to be a silly afterthought.
It’s still a job, and I want the guy who is most qualified. Not the guy who wants the job the most.
Maybe Hoke is the former, but right now he is in almost every measure the latter until he proves otherwise.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
the xenophobia the subsequent inability to coalesce around a new leader
has been eye-opening and deeply disappointing. i really thought we were better than that. greg robinson aside, i never thought that would enter into the equation as the reason for his downfall.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
Not sure if you meant my post in particular or many in general, but I never disliked Rodriguez as an “outsider.” Until the Gator Bowl I thought he deserved and wanted him to have at least one more year.
I think RR’s firing was due to the Gator Bowl being embarrassing but also a manifestation of long-time problems, being 1) the defense failing to improve at all and 2) the offense being unable to carry them in part due to what I felt was poor play calling. There were a lot of low-percentage (in this case, runs from “cold” running backs or similar) plays on 1st and 2nd and then we begged Denard to save us. Frankly I often felt better seeing Forcier enter the game NOT because he was “better” but because they didn’t run such a one-dimensional offense.
Mini-rant aside, the point was that I think RR didn’t get fired because of xenophobia— BUT that if he had managed to endear the Michigan faithful as much as his twang and not being a (this time in quotes) “Michigan Man” alienated them he might have gotten one last chance.
Last note, I think/hope xenophobia’s a bit strong a term for the Michigan fanbase’s reaction to RR. Definitely it was a culture clash, but that ANY outsider would have met with a similar reaction I don’t think is accurate. I just think going from Kipling to “ain’t” was a long way to go without great results on the field. I like RichRod and wish for the best in any and all his future endeavors, though— not even with the unspoken caveat “now that/as long as he’s not Michigan’s coach.”
well in that case: small sample size.
college football is highly highly variable. there are not a lot of games. if you want to make an honest assessment, you need to take into account multiple seasons, or, barring that, regress a lot.
i found the MiST game disheartening, but i was also like 70% sure RR was gone. i happen to think that RR knew this and that it impacted performance and scheme, but i don’t expect converts on that point.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
Three points
1 First, it’s important in reading Brian to distinguish between criticisms of Brandon and those of Hoke. I realize you probably do, but many people angry at him (Brian) do not. One of the first things Brian said when Hoke was hired was something like, “This is not Brady Hoke’s fault.” It’s true that Brian’s only actual criticism of Hoke so far was both unfair and premature — the full staff has a black recruiting coordinator and two black position coaches — but all of his other bitching and moaning has been about “The Process” and Brandon.
2 Another thing that I thought you would take Brian to task for (since you bolded it) is that his numbers are wrong on how many scholarships were left on the table — it’s more like two (those currently held by Watson and Williams) rather than five, and there’s a decent chance Joey Kerrigan will earn one of those once he shows he’s recovered from his ACL surgery. So really it’s just one. Count them yourself. I think it’s an honest mistake and not a purposeful distortion, but he should have corrected himself by now.
3 Finally, you and a lot of other people are jumping the gun a bit on this. It’s been barely a month since Rodriguez was fired. Only a few weeks since Hoke came on board. Arguing that Hoke would not be a good hire was a legitimate thing to do at the time. Complaining about the way the coaching search was handled is a legitimate thing to do on NSD (although getting one’s facts wrong, as Brian did, is unacceptable). Also, one of your three examples of his “jabs, complaints, and recriminations” since the hire is wrong — the Jerry Montgomery post is not a complaint — the Beyonce thing is a reference to an earlier joke, and says nothing about what Brian thinks of Montgomery.
I’ll let Brian address your larger argument, which is that Brandon didn’t make any mistakes — that everything played out as well as it could under the circumstances. My own view is that Brandon’s mistakes were more in his evaluation of the football program itself and in handling the pressure and public scrutiny surrounding it, coming from the privacy and security of corporate culture. He inadvertently highlighted this problem when he complained about it in his remarks at the Hoke introduction press conference.
PS: As I understand it, Dave Brandon never actually “played” for Bo. He practiced for Bo. He received only one varsity letter, for his senior year, but apparently did not play. I don’t think he was “recruited” either — he walked on. I don’t think that negates your point, but you make it sound like he was a scholarship athlete who played regularly. I’m not sure that’s true.
To be fair...
I felt bring up the race card in terms of diversity of the coaching staff wasn’t exactly criticizing Hoke for who he had hired so far, but rather to highlight something that should be addressed in the last two hirings, and specifically to bring up Corwin Brown’s name. I think Brian’s snarky sense of humor, which is what his sense of humor is always like, made the “complaint” seem worse than it was intended.
Skiffling.
I’m going to try to boil this down to its salient points and address them.
-Hoke can obviously recruit.
But can he? Any new guy should be expected to be able to get some 3-stars at positions of need to come to Michigan based on Michigan’s cachet. What Hoke did in a month of recruiting was meet our highest reasonable hopes for a class put together after hiring Brady Hoke in mid-January. That’s very different than meeting expectations for a typical Michigan class, which should be somewhere between Ohio State and No. 1 overall. Nobody thought on Jan. 11, 2011, that’s where Michigan would be this year — that’s a straw man argument. Stealing QBs from Purdue to provide depth behind Gardner in 2013 is good, but Hoke’s biggest recruiting victory so far has been to beat out Arkansas for a likely underrated tight end. I am happy about this, but we won’t know until next year at the earliest if Hoke can nab DePriests away from Alabama and Ohio State. He addressed kicker, but kicker’s probably the worst position to assess recruiting prowess. What we didn’t get was a blue chip DB. Nobody expected us to, but neither can we pretend like meeting low expectations is equivalent to what we will all expect in future years, oueh?
Irrational Need to Parse Out Blame
This part is such crap:
What I also don’t get is how in God’s name people can look back at the hiring process and blame Dave Brandon for doing his job. And even more puzzling, how you can blame Dave Brandon for a coaching search that netted a good hire and a good recruiting class. If you do this you fall into two categories:
Blogger to blogger, I am guessing your knuckles got tense, and your back got a little arched, and your neck creased a few times when writing this section. Some advice that I’ve found helpful: never be afraid of deleted large swaths of angry writing.
What you’re doing here, after the spike in blood pressure at the section’s intro, is building a straw man, a caricature of a Hoke/DB-hater as a setup for you to say “oh yeah, well this guy played for Bo!.”
What you don’t address is the big, obvious weakness in the “DB knows recruiting” meme: leaving RR in limbo for December majorly undercuts recruiting, no matter which direction you go.
You make the claim that Brandon intended to keep RR until he became a toxic asset after the Gator Bowl. But we don’t know that; that’s in DB’s head, probably for eternity. I figured, as you did, that DB was thinking like us: 6-6 is the 2010 expectation. Well, my father figured Brandon thought as he did. And my little brother figured DB thought like Michigan State fans think. And Mike Posner’s dad spent a good half hour explaining to me that he’s sure Dave Brandon thinks exactly how Mike Posner’s dad thinks. But none of these people were right — not me, not you, not my father or other fans or other big donors.
Having seen “The Process,” we can now guess. What we can’t do is find a good defense for bringing in a head coach who would have said “yes” any second he was asked until January 11 other than the scenario you laid forth, to restate: RR was going to be kept unless the bowl game was a blowout. And the problem with that scenario is that it’s plausible but filled with reasonable doubt. That scenario doesn’t explain why Dave Brandon didn’t stand behind Rich Rod after Ohio State.
I propose an alternative Brandon Brain scenario: one I believe but also one I can’t back up any more than yours:
Post-Purdue: Some concerns but bowl eligible is bowl eligible. If he wins one of the last two maybe I’ll change my mind but I’m probably going to fire him and get Harbaugh.
Post-Wisconsin: Whoa, bad day. I’m probably going to fire him and get Harbaugh.
Post-Ohio State: That was really bad. [Calls Harbaugh] Jim, we need you. JH: Talk to me after the bowl game.
Post-Gator Bowl: Well now I have to fire him. Jim, pick up. Pick UP!
Post-Orange Bowl: [Jim Harbaugh is now elevated past NFL write-your-own-check line, takes an NFL write-your-own-check job]. Fuck. [Scans list of emergency Michigan Men, settles on old DL coach].
In that scenario Brandon took a gamble and lost because the bowl season changed the equation for Harbaugh. Had Syracuse lost to VT, I can’t be sure, but I think Jim Harbaugh is Michigan’s next head coach.
That’s my best guess so far as to how it went down, which is to say I think that might be how it went down. But I would never, ever write on MGoBlog that “THIS is how it went down!” because I have no proof of it. My hypothesis, like your “the bowl game changed DB’s decision” has crucial holes in it (the obvious: is Harbaugh really that fickle?). I think you do a major disservice to your readers by presenting this as factual (a complaint I would extend to most of the “this is what ruined Rich Rod” series as well).
Another hypothesis is that Dave Brandon was a secret Hoke admirer all along, or at least since, say Michigan State. I can’t say I believe that, but I can make a stronger case for it than I can make for your “he made up his mind on Jan. 5” take.
You can say “Period. Full stop.” but that doesn’t in itself lend any more credence to your take on what was in Harbaugh’s mind. I’m not saying it’s impossible (his brother made some comments to that effect) but you can’t treat it as fact. Nor can you treat as fact the rumors of Miles doing something while at Michigan to disqualify him from the job.
This, ultimately, is what I think MGoBlog has in spades that your blog really needs: you don’t substantiate your claims.
Also, just interested in your take on this: in answer to
.
..who else was Michigan supposed to go after? I’ve heard people bitch and moan about how Michigan should’ve hired a good coordinator as their head coach. Okay, who? Who was an available top-flight coordinator? Who could’ve salvaged the defense and made it… okay? We just had one offensive genius, did we want another who’d install a new system and pay no attention to defense? On defense, who could Michigan have gotten? What big name without Michigan ties was available and had legitimate coaching chops?
…what do you think of Tom Bradley, the guy they’ve been grooming at Penn State to take over when JoePa’s weekend at Bernie’s is over? Great defensive mind, but also obviously knows how to coach offense and knows how to recruit. He’s a Big Ten guy for certain. The flirtation with Pitt and UConn shows he’s anxious to move up to the job he’s effectively been doing for a few years, he has said he would accept a better job if one came along, and Head Coach of the University of Michigan is a better job than “Penn State Defensive Coordinator and Guy Who Actually Is But Can’t Be Called Officially the Head Coach of Penn State Because Joe Paterno is Favre-ing Around Telling 2011 Recruits He Plans On Being Here for 4 More Years.” And I can think of no place more Michigan-like (other than Michigan) for grooming a Michigan coach than Happy Valley. I don’t even know if we spoke to Bradley, or considered him. Obviously this is moot now, since Brady Hoke is our coach and I am behind him. But speaking just to the question “which hot coordinator…?” I think Tom Bradley is an answer that needs to be addressed before that question is tossed out as a rhetorical.
I appreciate any just criticism, and you have done that for my posts in the past — I don’t believe one must be a saint and a paragon of journalism to point out factual problems or distortions, or in this case a tone that you find unappealing. The hypocrisy that bothers me…wait, no, it doesn’t really bother me, I just want to fix it more I guess…is when you call someone else out for your worse failures. In my opinion, the biggest problem with this site is you have a tendency to make grandiose claims without backing them up (e.g. Hoke can obviously recruit awesome!). Here you’re alleging a fellow M blogger is making false claims. But I don’t see anywhere in this post where you went through Brian’s evidence for his criticism of Dave Brandon’s “Process,” whereas I do see some instances of gross rhetorical fallacies.
Ultimately, the biggest problem you have — and this is shared by a lot of people — with Brian’s coverage is the tone. If he wants to defend his tone, that’s up to him. I can tell you it’s sincere. I can tell you that it pisses off Decaturs because criticizing the leader is unpatriotic (and more importantly undermines his decisions, e.g. hiring Brady Hoke). But Brian has, as long as I’ve been reading him, had precious little tolerance for traceable (but seldom obvious) examples of incompetence that may adversely affect Michigan’s chances of winning football games.
Getting upset over a sporting event seems kind of ridiculous, until you remember that the people who get upset over sports have a remarkable ability to not get upset over the position of the toilet seat, the state of the bed, or the current location of a pair of underwear.
I don't know...
First – I’m typing this ona phone, so apologies for spelling/grammer.
Misopogon I’m glad to have you commenting over here, and giving a reasoned well-thought-out response.
I take issue with your statement that this site incorrectly makes grandios statements, or rather, I disagree with your example. The Hoke can recruit awesome idea isn’t just our own – multiple (I can provide when I’m at a computer) people in the industry of NCAA football have stated that Hoke (and staff) can recruit awesome, including Urban’s assertion that Mattison is the best in the business. It is not a grandios statement to take all available evidence, including the salvaging of this class, and conclude that this guy – and more importantly (perhaps?) his staff can indeed recruit awesome. I think the gist, and I don’t want to speak for Dave, is that some people are letting negativity about the hire and process cloud their assessment of Hoke’s ability, which evidence points to being pretty capable.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-H.L. Mencken
http://maizenbrew.com
by Beauford on Feb 4, 2011 6:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I would say the counter, is that we don’t really know if Hoke is capable yet. He did an adequate job at securing this class. He did a great job in hiring Mattison. His record in past jobs is thoroughly mediocre. I hope Hoke does a great job. I think he has a chance to. I think the talent is there to have a great first couple years and a competent coach should be able to build off that. But he’s only done one thing well, which Brian praised him for, everything else is an incomplete at this point.
It seems to me that the “crime” that Brian has committed is listening to Hoke’s first press conference and immediately buying into him as a great coach. If Brian had done the opposite, I would have been disappointed. Immediately buying in without seeing results isn’t a rational response, not that that is automatically a bad thing. Irrational hope/pride/expectations are part of being a fan. It’s just not Brian’s personality and to expect him to turn into a cheerleader for what all available data at the time showed to be a poor decision isn’t being fair to him.
I don't know...
First – I’m typing this ona phone, so apologies for spelling/grammer.
Misopogon I’m glad to have you commenting over here, and giving a reasoned well-thought-out response.
I take issue with your statement that this site incorrectly makes grandios statements, or rather, I disagree with your example. The Hoke can recruit awesome idea isn’t just our own – multiple (I can provide when I’m at a computer) people in the industry of NCAA football have stated that Hoke (and staff) can recruit awesome, including Urban’s assertion that Mattison is the best in the business. It is not a grandios statement to take all available evidence, including the salvaging of this class, and conclude that this guy – and more importantly (perhaps?) his staff can indeed recruit awesome. I think the gist, and I don’t want to speak for Dave, is that some people are letting negativity about the hire and process cloud their assessment of Hoke’s ability, which evidence points to being pretty capable.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-H.L. Mencken
http://maizenbrew.com
by Beauford on Feb 4, 2011 8:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Grandiosity
This is a reply to Zach too.. If I was gonna fisk on MGo I’d have gone back and supported my “grandiose” statement with better examples. I should have been more clear: I enjoy this site and the obvious passion for Michigan by all. Most articles are good, even great (the Hoke recruiting thing was awesome). When it gets to big picture analysis though, I get the sense that you guys have editorially accepted things that we all think are true as being absolutely true, and that turns me off.
Example: 2008 quarterback situation, was that Rodriguez’s fault? Asked at a bar, Dave, Beau, Zach, me, et al. would quickly say “hell no.” But in coverage there’s a level to which we are not entirely positive that Mallett leaving was all Mallett, that he was leaving regardless of who the new coach was. We seized on the story of Lloyd throwing transfer papers at him after the Penn State game and figured 2008 was going to be Threet and Sheridan. But here’s the key point: we are not positive of that. Perhaps another hire might have convinced Mallett to stick around. Perhaps Rich Rodriguez knew what was best for Ryan and let him depart. Perhaps Mallett was waiting for phone call from the new coach and the new coach was busy trying to show Terrelle Pryor a friendly depth chart. Yet it is stated whenever the topic is broached on here that only the story we’ve accepted — that Mallett was all Mallett — IS the story of why 2008 quarterbacking was so bad. Also glossed over: Rodriguez kept inserting Sheridan instead of Threet, even when Threet was healthy and (obvious to pretty much everybody) superior.
That difference between “we think” and “we know” permeates 1 in 5 articles on this site, usually the more serious analysis ones.
Brian’s got this whole “I’m not a journalist; that’s the point” thing going on where he keeps trying to convince himself that he’s an hoi polloi blogger fan because he uses the occasional onomatopoeia. The fact is he’s a great journalist because he’s rightfully confident enough in his mastery of factual evidence to criticize those to whom he gives his allegiance. The reason people don’t see this attribute and think “oh, Pulitzer” is because we’re so used to “real” journalists, bereft of competition, crapping up the field.
You won’t see any local paper criticize anything related to a new coaching hire because a new coach is both a renaissance and remediation — patterns of incompetence have had zero time to emerge and thus the mind is all hope. When a 3-star recruit faxes in his L.O.I. we imagine the negatives will be trained out, the positives enhanced, and voila: Mike Hart. It’s only after big, athletic Obi Ezeh is on the field as an upperclassman do we realize the deficiencies in his scouting report are real deficiencies. Hoke is the 3-star who generated a bit of spring practice buzz (for a 3-star) and that’s all we know so far. To make him the second coming of Bo at this point is as unsupportable as saying he’ll never be All-Big Ten.
If SBNation would let me, I would totally edit that.
www.mgoblog.com
Great reply Misopogon
I was planning to write a counterpoint piece to run against Dave’s original, but I think you have gone above and beyond what I wanted to write and what I could write.
As always, great work. I’d give you a standing ovation, but I just spent the last 14 hours driving back to Michigan from Virginia and the coffee has wore off enough to leave me crumpled in a heap atop my bed, unable to do anything more strenuous than type slowly.
One last thing: I agree with Beauford when it comes to the “this blog’s problem is grandiose statements,” statement. I think Dave cares deeply about this issue which may have led to him overstating some of his case (such as his claim that this was a great recruiting class)—although he might not agree with my assessment. However, most of the things Dave and the rest of the guys write are level headed, factually accurate, and grounded in reality, and I try my best to hold my own work to that same high standard.
Go Blue!
http://www.maizenbrew.com/
You Miss The Point
I have always admired your contribution to mgoblog and your excellent writing. But, speaking of straw men, you miss the point of countless former mgobloggers, and that is Brian’s “tone” has transformed his writing. No, suffocated his writing.
For example, the hiring of Greg Mattison. This is enormous coup. This elevates the disputed value of Hoke as a head coach (based upon a relentless and intentional misinterpretation of his resume) up to a level beyond most other head coaching hires (i.e., from a defensive perspective, Hoke/Mattison may look better on paper than Harbaugh/Schaffer, as an example). Yet, beyond an unenthisiastic post (consider Brian’s post three years ago about the coming of Miles/Tenuta!!!!!!!!!… you would have thought 12 shut-outs were forecast) that acknowledged the hire had merit, we’ve heard squat. Mattison is at least 10 posts and a thousand exclamation points away from Brian’s excited coverage of Mike Barwis, for chrissake.
It’s more than tone. It’s petulance. There was a ton to be thrilled about with the recruiting recovery of the Hoke team, and his “summary” of that effort (yes, I still read) made me want to vomit. I am left with only one thought when I now see his brilliant writing turned to such cowardly purpose: what a fucking asshole.
And can we put to rest the idea that RR’s expected finish of 7-5 or 6-6 should have merited him anything? There is 7-6 and there is 7-6, and if you don’t know what a football team looks like that has quit on it’s leader, than you don’t know sports. It would have been criminal AD malpractice to leave in place a coach that committed a live abortion on TV each week in the form of the cronyism defense that we saw in the Big10.
I wanted RR to succeed so bad. I did not want Hoke. But at least I have the intellectual honesty to recognize that RR was toast and that Hoke has done everything right. He does not.
by Meeechigan Dan on Feb 5, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I'm late to the Party on this but you deserve a response
Sorry for the delay on this, but I’m finally back with internet and wanted to respond to some of your assertions.
First recruiting – There have been countless articles on Hoke’s recruiting chops on just about every recruiting site, paper, etc. that covers Michigan football. It was my mistake not to link them. For instance, Sam Webb, whom I have a lot of respect for, wrote an article discussing how good Hoke is at recruiting and how well he anticipates Hoke will do recruiting in the long run. You have a point, we won’t know how well he can recruit at Michigan until a few classes come in, but on the basis of professionals in the business, former players, and former coaches praising him, combined with a strong finish to what was a mediorce class to begin with, I’d say he did pretty well. And for the record, silent verbal commits (frost) and decommits (Hart) don’t count toward the class michigan was supposedly building before the Rodriguez firing. Rodriguez recruiting this cycle for DT and OL was basically nonexistant. Zettle was one of two commits before he left the fold, and Bryant didn’t sign on the line until the coaching situation was resolved. Other than Cooper, who else was rodriguez targeting? Based on what Rodriguez had done, and the time given him, I’d say Hoke did a great job salvaging what could’ve been a total disaster.
Second – You wrote this and I think you’re letting something blind you to the fact that the above discussion of the process is presented as opinion:
But I would never, ever write on MGoBlog that "THIS is how it went down!" because I have no proof of it. My hypothesis, like your "the bowl game changed DB’s decision" has crucial holes in it (the obvious: is Harbaugh really that fickle?). I think you do a major disservice to your readers by presenting this as factual (a complaint I would extend to most of the "this is what ruined Rich Rod" series as well).
I use phrases like “this is likely” or “I don’t know about you, but I find that reasonable”. Whether you agree with the opinion or not is irrevelant to my response. You missed that this is an opinion piece and presented as one. As you point out, perhaps exasperation did get the best of me and I launched into more generalities than normal, but this is clearly an opinion piece and to suggest that I am presenting things as unsubstantiated fact is disinegenious.
Third, I need to address this:
This, ultimately, is what I think MGoBlog has in spades that your blog really needs: you don’t substantiate your claims.
Were the links I included not enough? While I realize your point here is directed to a specific part of my opinion piece, I think your criticism here is opportunistic and so narrowly focused as to lose its credibility. You say I don’t cite things, but directly above and below I do. Must I cite every opinion I have? If you’d clicked on the link in the post above the section you are critiquing, I addressed Harbaugh and Miles in a separated piece. I also addressed the fact that we haven’t got the full story in that linked piece. So your critcism here is ill founded. You just didn’t like what you were reading so you didn’t click on the link or read what was there. But the answer to your critique was waiting for you. You chose to ignore it.
Next, your assertion that we make grandiose claims without support doesn’t make any sense to me either. As a writer at MGo, you may recall a certain heavily posted rumor that Kirk Ferentz would be Michigan’s next head coach. I don’t remember a cite to that claim. Certainly this was before your time, but as you’re painting with a broad brush about my site, I feel turn about is fair play. I am in no way saying that a fellow blogger is making “false claims”. I am saying that the position taken is not just counterproductive it’s reached a point where it’s grating and whiny. I am saying that constantly criticizing the hire, the personnel that are hired, and the results of the search does a diservice to those who will be leading our University. Those bloggers are welcome to have an opinion like that. However I am also free to say in my view that they are wrong.
re: Tom Bradley – One guy. One DC who is still holding out hope that he’ll get the job he actually wants, the PSU job. My larger point to all of this all along has been we don’t know who Brandon talked to. I said this in the link you didn’t follow:
We have over simplified the search on the basis of the result. If Brandon had hired some big name guy after a comparable search we’d be praising him for “doing it the right way” and taking his time to make the right decision. Instead people complaining that the search wasn’t good enough because all it got us is Brady Hoke. They’re complaining that if it was always Hoke, why not hire him immediately and on a PR binge to support him? The answers to this are above and the question itself is somewhat silly. Do you really think a man as accomplished as Brandon is, who has run Fortune 500 companies and is still young enough to screw up his career, dumb enough to needlessly put himself in this position? I realize I’m answering a question by posing another question, but the point is valid.
If our best coordinator option was a guy waiting to take over the Penn State job, then I think we did pretty well. If Bradley wanted a head coaching job, given the track record you just threw out, I would think he’d have one by now. I maintain, and continue to maintain, that the people who are naysaying “the process” are condemming it on the basis of the hire without any knowledge of who was actually interviewed, offered, or declined the job.
You’ll excuse my sarcasm here, but your last statement is comical:
But Brian has, as long as I’ve been reading him, had precious little tolerance for traceable (but seldom obvious) examples of incompetence that may adversely affect Michigan’s chances of winning football games.
No. That’s flat out wrong. I’ve been reading Mgo since Brian was still employed as an engineer and I’ve been blogging about Michigan since 2006. Brian’s tireless defense of Rodriguez coaching is Q.E.D. I’ve taken apart Michigan’s offensive performance in big games and have been completely underwhelmed, and I have been Horrified by his defensive coaching. There is no indication that the defense would be any better in year four than in year three other than extra experience. While I appreciate that perhaps the offense will be better, it is clear that Michigan will still be very bad on defense if Rodriguez was still the coach. You can’t suggest that his history at Michigan leads one to another conclusion. And, given my preferences, I tend to be in the defense wins championships camp. I’m sorry, but your argument here has absolutely no support.
Tone – In large respect, my criticism does come down to tone. I believe you can say the same thing many ways and mean many different things. Tone is important and it is something, as I’m sure you’ve noticed from the number of comments in support of this piece, that has been overwhelmingly negative regarding the hire and athletic department. Were it not for the fact that we’ve just been through a crusuade that ultimately had a hand in rodriguez’ firing, I would probably ignore it. But we have. We’ve seen what happens when a house is divided. We’ve seen the tenor of the articles discussing rodriguez in Free Press. And I’ll be honest here, the tone in the cited links is awful. You can defend his words all you want. The tenor and tone you are supporting is not a good one.
Finally, I do appreciate the comment and the time it took you to respond to this. While I appreciate that you don’t agree with my position, I don’t think the majority of your criticisms to the site or my post are particularly fair or well informed. But that’s my impression, just as you have stated yours. I think you read far too much into my support of Coach Hoke, as I noticed from your comment below:
To make him the second coming of Bo at this point is as unsupportable as saying he’ll never be All-Big Ten.
You’ll pardon me, but my saying:
“The Process” hired a qualified coach, Michigan faithful, excellent recruiter, and all around good human being in six days.
is not the same thing as comparing him to Bo. Again, Misopogon, you hoist yourself on your own petard. In this case you’re the one making grandios assertions regarding someone else’s position without support.
As I said, I welcome critiques. I’m happy to answer people’s complaints. However, I am also free to disagree with them.
Maize n Brew
Because Football is Better with Beer
by Maize n Brew Dave on Feb 7, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
You know, while its true that this class isn’t a top 20 UM class, as per usual, by every rating Ive seen, this is at or above the best of what anyone could expect, given the situation. Furthermore, had that last guy we went after decided he was not, in fact, allergic to snow, we would have still had a top 20 class.
I also find it hard to see how people can deny that waiting the extra month was a decision that not only hurt recruiting. The next point is tough for me to word, so bear with me, but I feel like the explanation he gave, of wanting the players to get a bowl game in with their lame duck coach (his explanation implies to me, that the decision was already made), does not show an equal value to the amount of damage done over possibly crippling this recruiting class, which will hurt for 4-5 years, with redshirts. Again apologies for a lack of clarity, and run-on sentencing. I hope I got the message across.
The fact that Hoke landed Coach Mattison, AND hit the upper limits of what we could hope for in recruiting, to me speaks to Hoke’s credit as a coach, more than Dave Brandon’s handling of the changeover. As I said before, though, I think Harbaugh was unavailable, Miles turned out to be undesirable, (and, again that program seems DIRTY down there the more I hear about it), and as he looked around, I don’t think Hoke was on his list, necessarily, as a serious contender, until the people Brandon turned to for advice kept pushing Hoke forward. That’s the best endorsement a guy can get. I think that Hoke was #1 in that no one else ever got an offer. The guys we thought might have, turned out to be undesirable, or unavailable, and thus, were never offered the job. all that said, so what? I wash my hands of it. My worst fears of recruiting disasters went unrealized, and Im delighted I was wrong.
"Michigan inks a great recruiting class"?
Although I’m inclined to agree with much of the general argument, you lost any credibility by calling this a great recruiting class.
Depends on "great"
..And perhaps to Misopogon’s point, this needs to be more clearly defined. I take “great” to be “compared to the doomsday scenario’s being thrown around immediately after the hire/process completion.” It all depends on what lens through which you view “great.”
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-H.L. Mencken
http://maizenbrew.com
I'm unsure of whether Hoke was the successor to Rodriguez all along or not.
Regardless- Mr. Brandon could’ve done a better job. I’m not saying overall he’s not a good AD, but he ultimately hamstrung Coach Hoke and the program, as far as recruiting is concerned. I’m not pro or anti Brandon. I think he cast Michigan in kind of a poor light with all the Harbaugh & Miles drama, especially if he had his guy all along. That’s some conspiracy theory shit, I realize. However it’s been said so many times that there were politics at play, dating back to Lloyd Carr.
I consider David Brandon lucky, and I consider Brady Hoke talented- he recruited well considering how far Michigan’s stock fell the last couple years, and how long Brandon waited to choose him to lead the team. Brady Hoke and his team have recruited and are rebuilding despite what in my opinion, was far too long of a wait to replace Rodriguez.
I have to take issue with this as well:
Michigan won seven games and lost it’s last two game to the two best teams in the conference. Michigan was at 7-5 and in a bowl game. A good bowl game. Rich had done, to that point, what he needed to do to save his job.
….No. This program was not on the ascent. I heard and read and saw the head coach scratch his head and laugh after his losses, talking about how much fun it was to watch. Zero cultivation of defense during his tenure. I don’t think that was fun to watch. That dude had a firing coming, coming for some time. His teams were impotent against other Big Ten teams, especially rivals. That good bowl game he made it to? Blown out. No. Rodriguez lost his job quite awhile ago. Not just after that bowl game.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Brandon's Timeline
I was happy when RR was hired because it looked like the offense would be more exciting, etc. I could give a darn about the “Michigan Man” hyperbole. But I figured he was wrong for the job before half way thru the 1st season. Losing to a lousy Toledo team at the Big House sent me a clear signal that RR was not the coach I thought he was. Brady Hoke said it best at his first UM press conference stating you have to use the a system that best compliments the players you have in order to win. Trying to completely replace the old with the new without having the right personnel is, to say the least, poor coaching, to say the most, it’s suicide.
I also question his prowess as an “offensive genius”. UM’s O was never the juggernaut it was supposed to be. Well, it had it’s moments against weak opponents. For all the railling against the D, no one seems to understand the relationship between a weak, inept, 3 and out O and a D that appears to be terrible. I think the O let us down a lot more than the D because the O was supposed to be our strong suit—and it wasn’t. When your O can’t move the ball, or get first downs, doesn’t score, and turns the ball over way too often, is that the D’s fault? How is the D to keep OSU out of the end zone with all those things going on? I think the D did well to keep OSU under 40. What would OSU have scored if the O had done what they were supposed to do? Kept Prior and Co off the field? Scored 28 pts?
RR was not getting it done and for him to say “I thought we had turned the corner” is absolute blindness to reality. I wish him well. No need for venom. I liked him before he came to Michigan, and I still do. But that doesn’t mean I want him coaching at UM any more. And whether or not Hoke is a “Michigan Man”, he is the man Michigan needs. He exudes the confidence and toughness we have been missing for longer than RR’s tenure at UM. Even Lloyd was getting a little mundane in his speaking and coaching demeanor at the end. (Appy State, anyone). But he was able to go out with a BANG against Florida, showing he still understood big time football. I have to agree that the blow out loss to MSU in the Gator Bowl made it impossible for Brandon to keep RR.
Go Hoke—Go Blue!!
by PreachinTotheChoir on Feb 5, 2011 3:58 PM CST reply actions
I agree with your overall point
But I can’t agree with your O vs. D argument. The idea that a good offense should be able to score enough to win when the defense can’t stop the opponent is garbage. Good defenses exist — you are not going to score 30 points every game, no matter how good your offense is.
The most essential equation in football stems from one simple fact: the moment before the snap, the offense knows what it is going to do, while the defense does not. As a general rule, the offense acts, while the defense reacts. Blitz defenses and option offenses only mitigate this fundamental dynamic, they don’t change it. The adage “defense wins championships” derives from this. Ask Oregon about it. Auburn’s defense beat them. Ohio State’s defense beat us this year. The only difference between the two games is that Oregon had a decent defense themselves. We didn’t and we got blown out. Arguing that we could have won the game with a better offense is absurd.
Unlike you, I was one of the last guys on Rodriguez Hill — it really wasn’t until the the last three games that my confidence in him as a coach was shaken, and I still thought that he should have gotten a fourth year. I personally think that Rich forced Brandon’s hand by arguing against making any changes to his coaching staff, insisting that the defense would improve next year and the team’s overall improvement would be “exponential” as Rich has since put it. I think that’s the problem with both MGo Brian’s and MnB Dave’s outlook on this — they ignore the possibility that Rich simply was not willing to fire, say, Tony Gibson (the DBs coach), or one of his offensive staff to make room for another defensive coach to correct the 6 > 4, O > D coaching imbalance. I think at best he might have been willing to sacrifice Greg Robinson, but we can’t even be sure of that. Indeed, everything Rich has said since indicates to me that he might not have wanted to do even that.
The offense in 2008 was a disaster. The defense was actually pretty good (when Shafer was allowed to do what he wanted), given the untenable position they were put in time and time again. Forget Appalachian State — upsets are upsets — the game that I have nightmares about is Notre Dame 2008. But I still stuck with Rich, figuring a guy is allowed some mistakes adjusting to new personnel, and the offense would surely improve. It did. Instead, the defense fell apart — he fired Shafer (which felt right at the time, but looks like a big mistake now) and hired a guy who was a decent NFL coach but clearly has no idea whatsoever how to teach on the undergraduate level.
Rasmus' point.
Don’t think I was “against” RR half way through the first year. I wanted him to succeed. I just felt he wasn’t gonna get done. Listening to all those bad records shatter, good ones come to an end, or just looking foolish on national TV is gut wrenching. My point about the O and D is that we knew—everyone knew—that we had a lousy D. Our O was supposed to be “lighting up the scoreboard.” It only did on occasion. And never against good teams. I think I should expect the O to put up 30 a game regularly. RR was supposed to bring that to us. And consider this, of all the times we scored less than 30, how many games would have ended differently if our O was on the field to get to 30 and the D on the field less? The D didn’t get much help from the O. And the absolute indictment of RR and his staff is that there was no improvement over the course of the season. In fact, as the season went along, we looked worse. Yeah, the competition was better, but our guys weren’t nor were they prepared for those games.
by PreachinTotheChoir on Feb 7, 2011 5:19 PM CST reply actions
Rasmus' point II.
How is suggesting that we could have won the game if our O had performed the way RR told us it would absurd? Our best D was supposed to be our offense. Keeping the other guys O—and our D—off the field was supposed to be part of the package. I’m not saying that if we’d have scored 30 we definately would have won. I am saying that if we had scored 30, all else being equal but given OSU’s lower time of possession, how many points would they have scored? My point really is we never had a chance because our big gun O was a pea-shooter.
by PreachinTotheChoir on Feb 7, 2011 5:36 PM CST reply actions
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